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Cider Digest #0902
Subject: Cider Digest #902, 1 June 2001
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #902 1 June 2001
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Carbonation, sweetness and temperature ("Sean Dawe")
cider and age (Dick Dunn)
Cider in Asturias ("Preben B. Jensen")
Please help me to stop.... (David Pickering)
RE:Carbonation ("Richard & Susan Anderson")
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Subject: Carbonation, sweetness and temperature
From: "Sean Dawe" <Seand@mail.gov.nf.ca>
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 14:46:13 -0230
I am a very amateur cider maker. I make a very simple drink from Mott's
100% apple juice - no fuss, no muss. A palatable drink by mine and my
friends/family standards. I carbonate mine by adding sugar at bottling. It
generally reaches the same "fizz" level as beer. I find that as the
carbonation increases so to does the level of flavour. The busting bubbles
in your mouth expoding with the taste of apples. I add lactose just before
bottling to add a little bit of sweetness. I always drink it at room
temperature and have done so now for a year or more. My wife, on the other
hand, chills it to the point of near freezing. I find that at room temp,
you can really taste the apple and residual sweetness. At the cold temp,
it tastes almost sterile - no life in it whatsoever. If only I could
convince her to drink it at a warmer temp - then she could discover the
flavours that are hidden to her.
Sean Dawe
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Subject: cider and age
From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 23:09:48 -0600 (MDT)
I think most of us are drinking our cider fairly young--the common question
seems to be "How soon is it ready?". But once in a while there's been a
posting asking "How long will it keep?"
FWIW, just this evening I opened a couple of our ciders from '96 and found
them to be in encouragingly good condition. In fact I can't say that they
have changed a lot in the past couple years. These were made with mostly
"eating apples", with all the limitations that implies, but they're OK
ciders within that genre. They were fermented only with the "natural"
yeast (what's on the apples). I was not experienced at the time I made
them. Well, I had lots of experience as a homebrewer and mead-maker, the
sanitation and some of the procedures, but very little experience with
cider.
Four years ('96 "vintage" would have been bottled in '97) is NOT a long
time, but it's more than "press in fall, ferment in winter, drink in spring"
and it's long enough for faults to have shown up if they would be there. I
find it encouraging for an amateur such as myself.
I'd be interested to know what other folks do consider "a long time" for
cider keeping well, and what your experiences have been.
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
...Simpler is better.
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Subject: Cider in Asturias
From: "Preben B. Jensen" <lesa@direct.ca>
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 08:24:49 -0700
I recently learned that a traditional cider industry has existed in
Asturias(Northern Spain) for centuries.There are still a number of
"Llagares" producing what is referred to as "sidra natural".One of
these,Sidra Fanjul has a website where you can order their products:
http://www.sidrafanjul.com
If you are going to Spain, consider visiting the cider museum in the
town of Nava.
Another website with cider information, such as a list(with pictures)
of Asturian cider apple varieties is: www.sidra.com.
Preben B Jensen
------------------------------
Subject: Please help me to stop....
From: David Pickering <davidp@netwit.net.au>
Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:40:59 +1000
After last weekend's crushing and pressing we now have the year's cider
in drums and apparently brewing nicely. We are using Lalvin QA23 yeast
(courtesy of a local winemaker) and are keen to hear ways in which we
might halt the fermentation rather than letting it continue to dryness.
Any ideas?
Lallemand, of Montreal, who manufacture the yeast have an interesting
article on their website
www.lallemand.com/danstar-lalvin/Inferment/cider.html
written by George Clayton Cole but there is not much detail on how to
stop fermentation.......
"........ adding SO2 and rapidly chilling to below 40F and removing the
yeast as quickly and thoroughly as possible by centrifuging or filtering."
Does anybody know how much SO2 to use, what the subsequent affects are,
and what filtering is possible and effective, as centrifuging is out of
the question for this low budget amateur.
What alternatives are there to SO2?
------------------------------
Subject: RE:Carbonation
From: "Richard & Susan Anderson" <baylonanderson@rockisland.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 09:14:57 -0700
Our carbonation trials to date include adding corn sugar at the rate of
about 10 grams per liter to unfiltered cider. This worked out fairly well,
resulting in a lightly carbonated cider with a minimum of bottle lees. The
next trial was with a sterile filtered cider(.5m) with 10 grams per liter
with a fresh batch of inoculants. After four weeks, the we have a nicely
carbonated cider, with very unstable lees, since the bottle becomes cloudy
if agitated to any degree. This translates to pour carefully. Our interest
is if the lees will solidify sufficiently so that we can market it,
otherwise we will end with a lot of cider for family and friends.
While this does not directly address your question, it fuels your discussion
of "should cider be carbonated" which is similar to the question posed to me
last week by a waitress in a very good restaurant who ask "I thought cider
should be carbonated". The best I could do is say "not necessarily". More
antidotal, several months ago I was talking with a fellow cider maker about
carbonating cider and his reply was, "I prefer a still cider, but I cannot
sell a still cider"
Richard Anderson
Westcott Bay Orchards
Vintage Cider
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End of Cider Digest #902
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