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Cider Digest #0896
Subject: Cider Digest #896, 9 April 2001
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #896 9 April 2001
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: sources for trees for cider varieties (US)? (Don Wegeng)
Terminology - juice vs cider (Andrew Lea)
Re: sources for trees for cider varieties (US)? (Tim Bray)
Cider Trees Available (jim)
CIDER TREES AVAILABLE (Lee Elliott)
Classic cider cultivars ("The Johnson Family")
Apple inventory ("Preben B. Jensen")
2001 Buzz Off Homebrew Competition ("David Houseman")
Cider Apple Nurseries (Ciderist@aol.com)
Re: Highly pleased with "chuffed" ("Pat Maloney") (peter g)
Cyser (John Conwell)
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Subject: Re: sources for trees for cider varieties (US)?
From: Don Wegeng <don@wegeng.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 13:54:03 -0500
Dick,
While I have not personally done business with them, Cummins Nursery in
Geneva, NY, (http://cumminsnursery.com/) has been mentioned several
times here on the Digest. They will graft trees to your specification
(root stock , etc). If you are not in a hurry, this sounds like the
perfect solution for folks like you who live in harsh climates.
/Don
don@wegeng.net
------------------------------
Subject: Terminology - juice vs cider
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 21:28:02 +0100
Dick Dunn asked:
>I'm curious what you'd find for house-brand juice/cider in a Safeway in
>England.
Safeway US and Safeway UK have been quite separate since 1987 with only the
name in common but neither management nor shareholders. I've haven't
checked out the following for sure but they will probably follow the pattern
of the other large UK stores and will probably sell:
1. A house brand fermented cider (possibly more than one, at different
alcohol and sweetness levels). This will be labelled 'Safeway Cider' in
various styles and made by one of the large UK cider mfgs on contract. Will
be packed in PET or glass.
2. A house brand clear apple juice made from rediluted imported apple
concentrate, UK-contract-packed in a Longlife Tetrapak carton (clear
plastic or glass are rarely used here for juice). This will call itself
'Safeway Apple Juice'
3. A much pricier house brand of cloudy apple juice, which will be
contract pressed in the UK from UK pressed fruit. Also packed in a
Longlife Tetrapak carton and labeled 'Safeway English Fresh-Pressed
Apple Juice' or similar.
4. Possibly a juice similar to 3 in the short-life chill section of the
store in a clear plastic bottle (and sold at a higher premium yet).
4. A range of branded ciders and juices at typically higher price than
the 'own label'.
There would of course be no confusion in anybody's mind as to the
disntinction between Cider and Juice - here the two are mutually
exclusive and word Cider is never used to denote 'rough' juice.
Andrew Lea,
Oxford UK
- --------------------------------------
Visit the Wittenham Hill Cider Page at
http://www.cider.org.uk OR
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
------------------------------
Subject: Re: sources for trees for cider varieties (US)?
From: Tim Bray <tbray@mcn.org>
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 13:03:31 -0800
Dick, you didn't mention which rootstock you are looking for.
I have gotten cider apple trees from Cummins Nursery
(http://www.dabney.com/cumminsnursery) on M7 and G30; they have others as
well, including a fully dwarf stock. Jim Cummins is extremely
knowledgeable and can help you evaluate varieties and rootstocks. The
trees I received were not as well-developed as the ones I get from Sonoma,
but the price reflected that so I was happy with the value.
I have also ordered some trees from Lee Elliott at Cider Hill Nursery, but
have not yet received them so cannot comment. He is a fairly small
operation and you need to get your order in early as he sells out
quickly. (217) 882-2047
I just received trees from Miller Nursery (1-800-836-9630), who have some
of the older varieties including some reputed to be good for cider. They
have them on standard or "semi-dwarf," which in their case appears to be M7.
There is an apple nursery near me, Garcia River Nursery, who does some
cider varieties - Kingston Black, Foxwhelp, Rhode Island Greening come to
mind. I don't know if he ships or not. He mostly grafts onto M111,
though, like the Sonoma folks. (707) 882-2523
Hope that helps!
Tim Bray
from sunny/foggy (changes every 15 minutes) Albion, CA
where the apples are leafing out, the pears are blooming, and my Golden
Russets planted two years ago are just beginning to bloom!
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Trees Available
From: jim <jmc1@epix.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 23:25:49 +0000
Dick, the following seems like an advertisement, and perhaps it is, but
there does seem to be some difficulty in locating cider varieties. If
you judge inappropriate, of course we couldn't take offense at the
information not being put out. It might be that simply noting our
website and that we do make a number of cider varieties would be
sufficient. Any how:
We usually put our cider varieties on either Malling 7 or Geneva 30, but
occasionally have some on Geneva 16 or M.26, surplus from custom
orders.
For spring 2001, we still have several traditional cider varieties
available, usually in 1/2" or 3/8" calipers, usually just a handful of
trees.
Bedan on M.26 and M.7
Brown's Apple on M.7
Bulmer's Norman on M.7 + some 5/16" grafts on G.30
Court Royal on G.16
Domaines on G.16 and M.7
Ellis Bitter on G.30 and M.7
Frequin Rouge on G.16
Kingston Black on M.26
Major on G.30 and M.7
Margil on M.7
Medaille d'Or on G.16
Pitmaston Pineapple on G.16 (5/16 whips only)
Stembridge Cluster on M.7
Stoke Red on M.7 and G.30
Sweet Coppin on M.7
"Tremlett's Bitter" (not correct ID) on M.7.
Most of the varieties above will be back next year, mostly on M.7 and
G.30. Following are additional for 2002:
Binet Rouge
Brown Snout
Brown Thorn
Chisel Jersey
Claygate Pearmain
Coat Jersey
Crimson King
Dabinette
Dufflin
Grenadier
Harry Masters Jersey
Marin Oufroy
Mettais
Michelin
Muscadet de Dieppe
Nehou
Noel des Champs
Porter's Perfection
Reine des Pommes
Stembridge Cluster
Vilbiries
Yarlingon Mills
//Jim
www.cumminsnursery.com
------------------------------
Subject: CIDER TREES AVAILABLE
From: applehilorchard@webtv.net (Lee Elliott)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 07:32:36 -0600 (CST)
Our small nursery still has a few trees for sale, listed are quanity,
and variety, one breakwell seedling, six brown snout, four brown's
apple, one herfordshire red streak, two muscat de bernay, one nehou, two
reine de hatives, four somerset red streak, two stembridge jersey, three
tom putt, two sweet coppin. All are large two year old trees. Our
nursery is different than other nurserys in that we will grow ANY
variety listed at the National Germplasm Repository or grow you trees
using YOUR scion wood. We DO NOT sell scion wood. call evenings CIDER
HILL NURSERY, 1852 Woodson Rd. Winchester, Illinois, 62694,
217-882-2047 LEE AND MARY ELLIOTT
------------------------------
Subject: Classic cider cultivars
From: "The Johnson Family" <dmjalj@wekz.net>
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 17:43:03 -0600
Interesting that this came up just now. As I was trying to find info on
disease resistance I contacted John Ross and part of his response to me
included this list:
Sonoma Antique Apple Nursery
4395 Westside Road
Healdsburg, California 95448
707-433-6420
www.applenursery.com
Cider Hill Nursery
1852 Woodson-Winchester Road
Winchester, Illinois 62694
217-882-2047
Cummins Nursery
18 Glass Factory Bay Road
Geneva, New York 14456
315-789-7083
http://www.cummigsnursery.com/
Tree-Mendous Fruit
Eau Claire, Michigan
800-957-4735
http://www.tree-mendus.com
Raintree Nursery
391 Butts Road
Morton, Washington 98356
360-496-6400
Washington State University used to have a program that offered certified
virus-free scionwood for a huge list of apple varieties, including half a
dozen cider types. Of course, "virus-free" is not the same as disease
resistant, but it's a start. Their Web site seems to be offline, but you
might want to try this in a week or two:
http://www.nrsp5.wsu.edu/nrspcp02.html or write to:
National Research Support Project 5 (NSRP5)
Washington State University - IAREC
24106 North Bunn Road
Prosser, Washington 99350
bhowell@beta.tricity.wsu.edu
I would also add the following sources I have run across:
Inner Coast Nursery
Bill and Elena Wheeler
Box 115, Mansons Landing, B.C., V0P 1K0
(250) 935-6384
http://oberon.ark.com/~innersea/
Big Horse Creek Farm
P.O. Box 70
Lansing, NC 28643
http://www.bighorsecreekfarm.com/
NORTHWOODS NURSERY.
(I haven't gotten their catalog for awhile, but they used to have some cider
varieties)
28696 S. Cramer Road
Molalla, OR 97038
(503)651-3737
The only people on this list I have personally done business with are Cider
Hill and Northwoods. I have done business with Bear Creek and am truly
disappointed to find they are out of business. They were a class operation
and a pleasure with which to do business. Are you sure Dick?
Others may be able to add some comments here.
------------------------------
Subject: Apple inventory
From: "Preben B. Jensen" <lesa@direct.ca>
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 11:29:24 -0700
In regard to Dick Dunn's comments on the scarcity of retail suppliers of
variety/rootstock combinatios:
I would,myself, be willing to "help out" fellow amateur orchardists
with scions of varieties and rootstocks that I have. I know that there
are other people who would do the same.
Now all we need is a person willing to collect the names of these
people, the varieties they have and post an inventory list.
As for grafting a scion to a rootstock, it is so simple that anybody
with an interest in this hobby should definetely learn to do it.
Preben B Jensen
------------------------------
Subject: 2001 Buzz Off Homebrew Competition
From: "David Houseman" <housemanfam@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 21:56:29 -0400
This is the announcement of the 2001 Homebrew competition. Check out the
details of the beer, cider and mead competition at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~housemanfam/2001BuzzOff/ to be held June 9th at
the General Lafayette Inn and Brewery in Lafayette Hills, PA, just outside
of Philadelphia. The BUZZ homebrew club is seeking BJCP judges in addition
entries in all style categories. The Buzz Off is an MCAB Qualifying Event
for all beer categories.
David Houseman
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Apple Nurseries
From: Ciderist@aol.com
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 01:38:25 EDT
Hi All,
In last Digest Dick Dunn asked about sources of cider apple trees, here's
some more places to try.
Cider Hill Nursery, 25 cider apples & perry pears, send SASE for flyer
Lee & Mary Elliot
1852 Woodson Rd.
Winchester Il.62694
(217) 882-2047
applehilorchard@webtv.net
Orchard Lane Growers, 300 varieties, many old american, some cider, M-111
Rooted
5014 Orchard Lane
Gloucester Va.23061
(804)694-0470
orchard@crosslink.net
Classical Fruits, 700 varieties, family owned & operated
8831 AL Highway. 157
Moulton, Al. 35650
(256)974-8813
Greenmantle Nursery, some cider apples, (Wickson Crab!), will custom graft
and send for you to grow
3010 Ettersburg Road
Garberville, Ca. 95542
(707)986-7504
One Green World
28696 South Cramer Road
Molalla, OR. 97038
(503)651-3005
www.onegreenworld.com
I have delt with most of them and found them to be reputable, I haven't
bought from Cider Hill, but they're NAFEXers so I'll vouch for them.
Shaun Shepherd
Portland, Oregon
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Highly pleased with "chuffed" ("Pat Maloney")
From: peter g <peter.g@telus.net>
Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 19:19:51 -0700
Folks,
so tickled was i , with Pat Maloney's last post , that a decision was
made to consult my 1886 copy of Noah Webster's Unabridged
Dictionary to see how the word was in use 115 years ago in the USA.
the 5" thick, leather bound tome returned the following:
Chuff, n. a coarse, heavy, dull, or surly fellow; a clown --- Shak.
Chuff, a. surly; ill-tempered; irascible.
Chuffily, adv. In a rough, surly manner ; clownishly
Chuffy, a. Fat or swelled out, especially in the cheeks.
interesting how the usage has evolved , but ...
lo, and behold ... on the very next page ...
Cider, n. a drink made from the juice of apples.
(notation) The word was formerly used to signify the juice of other
fruits, and other kinds of strong liquor, except wine ; but it is now
appropriated to the juice of apples, before and after fermentation.
so the word "cider" was used ( in the US anyway) to describe both
fresh & "modified" apple juice, according to Webster, way back then.
there's probably a stellar etymology & date chart for both words
at www.OED.com ; anyone have a subscription ?
regards
peter g
------------------------------
Subject: Cyser
From: John Conwell <JConwell@costco.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 08:38:10 -0700
Last fall I gave a go at my first cyser. Its been in the carboy for 6
months now, racked once and it has cleared up beautifully. My question is,
how long should a cyser stay in the carboy before bottling? I've read that
because the honey is a more complex sugar that it takes longer for the taste
to mellow before bottling. I've tasted it the other day and it definitely
still needs more time. So how long should it age in the carboy? And once
bottled, how long should I leave a cyser before serving? Thanks,
John Conwell
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #896
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