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Cider Digest #0931
Subject: Cider Digest #931, 19 November 2001
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #931 19 November 2001
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: best base apples and timing of ripeness (Terence L Bradshaw)
RE: Aged cider ("Arun Welch")
re: best base apples and timing of ripeness (Dick Dunn)
RE: Sparkolloid ("RJ")
Perry Article (Rcapshew@aol.com)
Comments for Claude! (Andrew Lea)
Anybody want some trees? (Tim Bray)
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Subject: Re: best base apples and timing of ripeness
From: Terence L Bradshaw <madshaw@innevi.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:57:47 -0500
>In order to determine which apples we should plant one consideration is
>what a good base apple would be. Depending on what base apple we think
>we'll go with, we need to consider the ripening time of the varieties we'll
>plant here in order to avoid having our apples ripen too long after the
>base apples ripen.
>
>Choices of things that are cheap and readily available include:Macintosh,
>Red Delicious, Golden Delicious, but other suggestions (especially from
>those in Eastern MA who know what's best suited and easily available in
>this region) would be appreciated.
My base apple recommendations would include Cortland, Golden Delicious (no
more than 30%of the squeeze), and Rome. Northern Spy or Golden/Roxbury
Russet would be nice too if you can find them. This will allow you to
squeeze anywhere from the second to last week in Ocober, maybe later if you
can store the Cortlands or buy them from someone who does.
TB
Terence Bradshaw
93 Stowe St
Waterbury, VT 05676
(802)244-0953
madshaw@innevi.com
The views represented by me are mine and mine only................
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Aged cider
From: "Arun Welch" <welch@igillc.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 20:23:28 -0600
I had a batch of cyser that was practically undrinkable when I first tasted
it. Being lazy, I left the case of bottles mixed in with my other cases of
empties, figuring when I needed them I'd empty the yucky stuff out before
putting in a new batch. For some unknown reason one case never seemed to get
in the cleaning batch, and sat in the back of the closet for about 5 years.
Then I needed those bottles, and started pouring the junk down the sink.
Close to the end I thought "Gee, I wonder what it tastes like now". Yup, you
guessed it, it was absolutely fantastic. By this time I only had 6 bottles
of the 24 left, and those were preserved for drinking. *Sigh*. I no longer
throw out "bad" batches, they just get saved for later. Of course, this
means I've probably got a couple gallons of vinegar saved for a rainy day
:-).
...arun
------------------------------
Subject: re: best base apples and timing of ripeness
From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 21:58:58 -0700 (MST)
Jay Hersh <drbeer@doctorbeer.com> wrote:
> Hi Jay Hersh here, early digest participant that hasn't chimed in much lately.
Excessive modesty! Yes, Jay is an "early...participant"--being the FOUNDER
of the digest. (Say "thanks", folks! Jay is the reason the digest exists.)
> Choices of things that are cheap and readily available include:Macintosh,
> Red Delicious, Golden Delicious, but other suggestions (especially from
> those in Eastern MA who know what's best suited and easily available in
> this region) would be appreciated.
I'm not in eastern MA, but I've got several classes of suggestions.
First, just based on what you should be able to get: Mac is a good part of
a cider base. Same with Golden. Both need significant blending, but they
contribute good sugar and good aroma. Red Delicious: My mommy told me "If
you can't say anything nice, don't say anything" and if I obeyed that, the
paragraph would end here. But I'm not quite that nice. I have yet to find
a Red Delicious (including supposedly "old-style" sub-varieties) that was
worth picking, let alone grinding and pressing. I've pressed Red Delicious
juice for neighbors. Nobody liked it, and some have agreed with me to
throw it out rather than try salvaging it by blending.
Second, there are apples traditional for your area that you should con-
sider. Roxbury Russet, Golden Russet, Northern Spy are the first ones that
come to mind. The russets in particular seem to lend body and some sort of
"richness" to a cider.
Third, you've got cider-makers in your area, and if you can find them, they
should be able to give you plenty of ideas. Why don't you try West County
in Colrain, for example...their cider is good enough that I took some to
England for people to taste on our last trip, and I've honestly considered
driving back there from Colorado to pick up as much as I could carry.
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Sparkolloid
From: "RJ" <wortsup@metrocast.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 08:54:30 -0500
Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca> wrote:
<snip> "...Someone in a wine and beer supply shop recommended
Sparkolloid - I tried it and got spectacular results. Within 24 hours
the cider starts to clear and it becomes perfectly clear after 3 or 4
days. I now use it for the cider batches that do not clear naturally.
Sparkolloid is a beige powder. I use about 20 ml for a 20 liter batch
(1.5 table spoon in 5 gals), mixed with 1.5 cup of water and boiled
during 15 minutes. I siphon the cider in another carboy, add the
Sparkolloid mixture et voila. The only thing is that I have absolutely
no idea of the composition of Sparkolloid. If someone on this discussion
list knows what is Sparkolloid, I would appreciate very much to learn a
little on it. I would also like to hear from others that use it."
Claude,
I've not used it personally, but here's the info I believe you're
looking for... There's actually two different kinds, so here goes:
Sparkolloid
Two Formulas For Superior Clarification
For Juice: Cold Mix Sparkolloid is a superior fining agent developed by
Scott Laboratories for clarification. It is a blend of polysaccharides
in a diatomaceous earth carrier that has a strong positive charge. This
positive charge neutralizes the repelling charge of particulate matter
allowing aggregation and formation of compact lees. Cold Mix Sparkolloid
does not remove desirable color constituents. Cold Mix Sparkolloid
should be used to achieve maximum clarity and sparkle at lowest total
cost.
Recommended Dosage:1.0-2.0lb/1000gal
For Wine: Hot Mix Sparkolloid is a similar blend of polysaccharides and
diatomaceous earth specially formulated for superior clarification in
wine.
Recommended Dosage: 1.0-4.0lb/1000gal (Lab Trials are Necessary)
RJ <aka Olde Phenomian>
Lakes Region of New Hampshire
------------------------------
Subject: Perry Article
From: Rcapshew@aol.com
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:04:14 EST
The American Homebrew Association (AHA) has printed
my article "Perry: The Other Cider" in the November/
December 2001 issue of Zymurgy magazine. The AHA
website is www.beertown.org.
Bob Capshew
------------------------------
Subject: Comments for Claude!
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:19:24 +0000
Claude wrote:
> So it is this forgotten bottle that I drank yesterday. The cider was still
> excellent, with a nice sparkling like Champagne. There was a little
> something special in the bouquet that is quite difficult to describe in
> words. I didn't find it better than a 2 year old bottle, but it just felt a
> little different.
Like Claude, I find that naturally conditioned and naturally yeasted
ciders can keep almost indefinitely in glass bottles. The flavour
shifts a bit but never becomes unpleasant. One thing *never* happens,
though - the biscuity flavours characteristic of good bottle fermented
Champagne are never produced. This is a sort of disappointment but I
always put it down to the different chemical composition of apples vs
grapes (apples lack sulfur-containing amino acids which may be key in
this). Has anyone else managed to achieve this flavour with naturally
conditioned or 'champagne' ciders?
Claude also wrote:
> If someone on this discussion list knows what is Sparkolloid,
> I would appreciate very much to learn a little on it.
Sparkolloid is a product of Scott laboratory
(http://www.scottlab.com/fining_agents.htm) and has been around for at
least 30 years to my knowledge, probably a lot longer. In the US it is
BATF approved for addition to wine and has GRAS status. Its composition
is proprietary but is stated to be a mixture of polysaccharides (perhaps
agar, carageenan or chitosan??) on a diatomaceous earth base. One of
its key features is that it is treated to give a positive residual
charge. This is one reason it works so well, because most of the haze
forming particulates in stored wines and ciders are negatively charged
(due to pick-up of organic acid anions). The charge neutralisation
allows aggregation of particles to take place and hence they become
large enough to flocculate and drop out of suspension. School physics
teaches us that 'like charges repel' and 'unlike charges attract'!
For this reason it would probably not work so well against primary yeast
haze, because yeasts tend to have a positive charge due to their cell
wall surface proteins.
The science / art of beverage fining is very much about balancing
electrical charges. I believe that sewage sludge treatment follows many
of the same principles! Any wastewater engineers out there like to
comment??
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford UK
- ----------------------------------
Visit the Wittenham Hill Cider Page at
http://www.cider.org.uk OR
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
------------------------------
Subject: Anybody want some trees?
From: Tim Bray <tbray@mcn.org>
Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:25:32 -0800
I have six Bedan that are not suited for my climate - I don't get enough
chill, so they break bud VERY late (almost July this year) and hence do not
grow vigorously here. (They probably also would like more heat in the
summer.) I think I will dig them up and replace them with another variety
that does well here. It would be nice to transplant them to a better home,
so if anyone is interested, contact me and we will work out a deal.
Cheers,
Tim Bray
Albion, CA
Albion Works
Furniture, Clothing, and Accesories
For the Medievalist!
www.albionworks.net
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #931
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