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Cider Digest #0901
Subject: Cider Digest #901, 28 May 2001
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #901 28 May 2001
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
thoughts on K ("David Johnson")
Australian Lady Williams Apple ("Mark Ellis")
Dictionary definitions (Andrew Lea)
Hawkins Amber Cider (peter g)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: thoughts on K
From: "David Johnson" <dmjalj@ckhnet.com>
Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 12:24:46 -0500
I guess I missed some of the recent comments about K. My 2 cents
on the subject would include the comment that, although I only had
one bottle, it was much less carbonated than the majority of
ciders Dick mentioned. Possibly it was just the single bottle that
I happened to get. It seemed to show how much the Woodchuck,
Strongbow, ... could be improved just by decreasing the
carbonation.
It makes me think about what is the purpose of carbonation in my
cider. There is a certain visual appeal to a sparkling beverage,
but this is probably less important in cider than beer. It also
serves to tickle the palate and lift the scent of the cider. Since
so much of what we taste is really smell, this is quite important.
Further, since temperature affects the level of carbonation,
serving temperature cannot be seperated from the discussion. I
think that ciders are often served too cold. At colder
temperatures, the perception of sweetness is decreased. It seems
that serving a cider less cold would enhance the perception of any
residual sweetness. Yet if we served many of the commercial ciders
at a warmer temperature, the level of carbonation would be even
more distracting.
I think the concepts of serving temp and carbonation have been
discussed here before, but I guess this experience helped me
realize that overcarbonation in cider really is a flaw (IMO) and
that I should think about serving cider at warmer temperatures.
I have a couple of batches of last season's cider to bottle (my
bottling has been delayed by a building project that has delivered
a lot of dust to my work area). Perhaps I will bottle it with 2
different levels of carbonation.
Has anybody really tried this?
Other comments?
------------------------------
Subject: Australian Lady Williams Apple
From: "Mark Ellis" <mellis@gribbles.com.au>
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 08:27:47 +1000
G'day,
This is probably a Aussie related query I guess. Has anyone used Lady
Williams juice for cider. It is quite a sharp apple and I am curious. Any
Ideas??
Thanks
Mark Ellis
------------------------------
Subject: Dictionary definitions
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 13:38:43 +0100
A while ago someone asked what the full Oxford English Dictionary (OED)
definition of 'cider' was. I've set it down below. It looks better in
HTML which you'll find in a blind link at
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea/oedcider.html I
was surprised it does not include current US alternate usage to mean an
(?unfiltered) unfermented apple juice.
Also, since people have been so uncharitable as to question Dick's use
of the word 'eruction' recently, I've added that too. It follows the
cider....naturally!
Andrew Lea
- --------------------------------------
Visit the Wittenham Hill Cider Page at
http://www.cider.org.uk OR
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
- ------------------------------
CIDER
ME. sidre, sier, etc., a. OF. sidre (now cidre), corresp. to It. sidro,
cidro; Sp. sidra fem., OSp. sizra.
Although the phonetic history of the word in Romanic presents
difficulties, there can be no doubt that it
represents late L. sicera (med.L. cisara, cisera), Gr. , a word used by
the LXX, the Vulgate, and
Christian writers to translate Heb. shkr intoxicating liquor, `strong
drink', of the O.T., f. shkar to drink
deeply or to intoxication. It is not clear where or how the phonetic
change from sicera to sidra took place;
but perh. the intermediate link was sizra (sitsra, sidzra): cf. F. ladre
from Lazarus. In common use cidre
had already acquired the sense of `fermented drink made from apples'
before it was taken into English.
But the earlier sense of `strong drink' generally was retained in
translation of, and allusions to, the
Vulgate; and in this sense the word had often forms much nearer to the
Latin, as ciser, cisar, cyser, seser:
these forms are not used in the sense `cider': see SICER.]
1. a. A beverage made from the juice of apples expressed and
fermented. Formerly including fermented
drinks prepared from some other fruits.
c1315 SHOREHAM 8 Inne sithere, ne inne pereye. 1398 TREVISA Barth. De
P.R. XIX, liii. (1495) 894 Hony cometh of
floures, sidre of frute, and ale of corne. c1440 Promp. Parv. 64 Cedyr
drynke, cisera. 1464 Mann. & Househ. Exp. 184 He
hathe even me a tone of syder. 1576 FOXE A. & M. I. 260/1 This ague he
[K. John] also encreased..by eating Peaches and
drinking of new Ciser, or as we call it Sider. a1626 BACON New Atl. 5 A
kind of Sider made of a Fruit of that country. 1663
BOYLE Usefulness Exper. Philos. II. 175 'Tis known, that Sydar, Perry,
and other Juyces of Fruits, will afford such a spirit.
1708 J. PHILIPS Cyder 11, My mill Now grinds choice apples and the
British vats O'erflow with generous cider. 1714 Fr. Bk.
of Rates 36 Beer, Syder, or Perry, per Ton 01 06. 1767 T. HUTCHINSON
Hist. Prov. Mass. i. 57 A barrel full of cyder. 1848
MACAULAY Hist. Eng. I. 614 Hogsheads of their best cyder. 1875 JEVONS
Money (1878) 6 The farm labourer may partially
receive payment in cider.
b. Formerly used in Biblical passages, or allusions to them, alongside
of ciser, cisar, cyser, etc., to
render L. sicera of the Vulgate `strong drink'. Obs. (See SICER.)
a1300 Cursor M. 12679 (Cott.) is iacob..Iesu broer..he dranc neuer
cisar [v.r. ciser, sider, cidre] ne wine. 1382 WYCLIF
Judg. xiii. 4 Be war thanne, lest thou drynke wyn and sither [1388
sydur]. Ibid. Prov. xxxi. 6 iueth cither [1388 sidur] to
mornende men. Ibid. Luke i. 15 He schal not drynke wyn and sydir [v.r.
cyser, cyther; 1388 sidir]. 1483 CAXTON G. de la
Tour Liijb, He shold drync no wyn ne no maner of syther. 1497 BP. ALCOCK
Mons Perf. Ej3 Saynt John Baptyst, which ete
neuer flesshe, dranke no wyne nor cydre.
2. attrib. and Comb., as cider-apple, -barrel, -bibber, -counties,
- -country, -fruit, -maker, -making,
- -orchard, -tree; cider-and (colloq.), `cider mixed with spirits or some
other ingredient' (Davies) (? obs.);
cider brandy, a kind of brandy distilled from cider; cider cart U.S.
(see quot.); cider-cellar, a cellar in
which cider is stored; name of a drinking-shop and place of
entertainment in Maiden-lane, London;
cider-cup, a beverage consisting of cider sweetened and iced, with
various flavouring ingredients;
cider-house, a building in which cider is made; cider-man, one who makes
or sells cider; cider-marc
[see MARC], the refuse pulp, etc., left after pressing apples for cider;
cider-master, a manufacturer of
cider; cider-mill, a mill in which apples are crushed for making cider;
cider oil U.S., cider that has been
concentrated by boiling or freezing; concentrated cider with infusion of
honey; cider press, a press in
which the juice of the crushed apples is expressed for cider;
cider-pressings n. pl., the pulp, etc., left after
expressing the juice for cider; cider royal U.S. = cider oil; cider
vinegar, a vinegar produced by the
acetification of cider; cider-wring = cider-press.
1742 FIELDING J. Andrews I. xvi, They had a pot of *cyder-and at the
fire. Ibid., Smoaking their pipes over some
Cyder-and.
1875 URE Dict. Arts I. 1019 The best situations for the growth of the
*cyder apple.
1841-4 EMERSON Ess. Poet. Wks. (Bohn) I. 160 The *cider-barrel, the
log-cabin.
1866 MISS THACKERAY Vill. Cliff xvi, The old *cider-bibbers at
Pelottiers.
1703 J. MORE Eng. Interest (ed. 2) ii. Sec.6. 27 The most Stale and Sowr
Cyder..will make the..best tasted Brandy, being twice
Distill'd. Of this *Cyder-Brandy I have kept some, four Years. 1723 J.
NOTT Cook's & Confect. Dict. No. 141 C To make
Cider Brandy, or Spirits. 1845 S. JUDD Margaret I. vii. 42 Distilleries
for the manufacture of cider-brandy. 1859 BARTLETT
Dict. Amer. (ed. 2), Apple Brandy, a liquor distilled from fermented
apple-juice; also called Cider Brandy.
1877 Southern Hist. Soc. Papers III. 17 The passage of a *cider-cart (a
barrel on wheels) was a rare and exciting occurrence.
1823 Blackw. Mag. XIII. 514 At *cider-cellar hours, when that famed
potation-shop was in its days of glory.
1855 MACAULAY Hist. Eng. xxiv, The lucrative see of Worcester was
vacant; and some powerful Whigs of the *cider
country wished to obtain it for John Hall.
1851 London at Table III. 51 *Cider Cup,..cider..soda
water..sherry..brandy..lemon..sugar and nutmeg. 1876 BESANT & RICE
Gold. Butterfly xliii. 328 He drank some cider-cup.
1669 WORLIDGE Syst. Agric. (1681) 111 There cannot be an over-stocking
of the Country with them, especially of
*Syder-fruits.
1848 MACAULAY Hist. Eng. (1889) I. iii. 166 Worcester, the queen of the
*cider land.
1671 H. STUBBE Reply 17 From his own *Cider-maker.
1664 EVELYN Kal. Hort. (1729) 216 September..*Cider-making continues.
1706 Lond. Gaz. No. 4287/4 Richard Peake, late of London, *Cyderman.
1675 EVELYN Terra (1776) 63 [A] bed of *Cyder-marc, rotten fruit and
garden offal.
1664 Pomona Gen. Advt. (1729) 94 Care is taken by discreet
*Cider-Masters.
1688 Lond. Gaz. No. 2374/4 Mr. George Brown *Sider-Merchant at the
*Sider-Mill in High Holborn.
1846 H. H. BRACKENRIDGE Mod. Chivalry (rev. ed.) I. xxiii. 115 She
ordered him a pint tumbler of *cider oil, with
powdered ginger, to warm his stomach. 1859 BARTLETT Dict. Amer. (ed. 2),
Cider Oil, cider concentrated by boiling, to
which honey is subsequently added.
1879 *cider-orchard [see QUEENING n.].
1673 in Essex Inst. Hist. Coll. L. 28 In the Little chamber a great Tray
a trough a *syder presse. 1676 BEAL in Phil. Trans. XI.
584 The Cider-mill, or Cider-press invented by Mr. Hook. 1879 R. J.
BURDETTE Hawk-Eyes 70 The sound of the cider press
ceased not from morning even unto the night.
1664 EVELYN Kal. Hort. (1729) 225 Sow..Pomace of *Cider-Pressings to
raise Nurseries.
1684, 1707 *Cider royal [see ROYAL a. 15b]. 1828 T. FLINT Geogr.
Mississippi Valley I. 235 What is called `cider royal' or
cider, that has been strengthened by boiling, or freezing. 1837 A.
WETMORE Gaz. Missouri 290 The disturber known
in..Pennsylvania [as].. `cider royal', and by the Indians appropriately
named `fire-water'.
1530 PALSGR. 270 *Sydre tree, pommier.
1851 C. CIST Cincinnati 251 But there is a good deal of *cider vinegar
made. 1858 SIMMONDS Dict. Trade, Cider-vinegar,
vinegar made in Devonshire and America from refuse cider. 1917 Jrnl.
Chem. Soc. CXII. I. 313 The volatile reducing
substances in cider vinegar consist largely, if not wholly, of
acetylmethyl carbinol, which is shown to be a normal constituent
of this vinegar. 1937 Discovery Sept. 280/1 In the cider-drinking West
Country much cider vinegar is found.
- ----------------------------------
ERUCTION
[n. of action f. ERUCT: see -TION.]
The action of eructing. lit. and fig.
1623 COCKERAM, Eruction, Belking. 1837 Fraser's Mag. XV. 586 They are
utterly insensible to any eruction of generosity. 1842
Tait's Mag. IX. 723 Bonfires of immense eruction Fling abroad their
gorgeous rays.
- -------------------------------------
ERUCT
[ad. L. ruct-re, f. out + ructre to belch, emit. Cf. It. eruttare, Sp.
erutar.]
1. intr. a. To void wind noisily from the stomach through the mouth.
b. To rise in eructation.
1666 G. HARVEY Morb. Angl. iv. 46 By force of these torrid streams
eructing into several parts..those flushings..are produced.
1755 SMOLLETT Quix. (1803) IV. 40 Beware..of chewing on both sides of
your mouth, as well as eructing before company.
2. trans. a. To emit (fumes) by eructation; = BELCH 3. b. Of a
volcano; = BELCH 5.
1774, 1869 [see ERUCTED ppl. a.].
- -------------------------------------
ERUCTATION
[ad. L. ructtin-em, n. of action f. ructre: see ERUCT.]
1. The action of voiding wind from the stomach through the mouth;
belching.
1533 ELYOT Cast. Helthe (1541) 41b, The savour of his meate by
eructation ascendeth. 1542 BOORDE Dyetary viii. (1870) 247
Lest that the meate which is in your stomacke, thorow
eructuacyons..ascend. 1612 WOODALL Surg. Mate Wks. (1653) 71
Ginger..preventeth sowre eructation. 1699 EVELYN Acetaria 17 Cabbage..is
greatly accus'd for lying undigested in the Stomack and
provoking Eructations. 1847 YOUATT Horse xiv. 300 The animal has no
power to expel this dangerous flatus by eructation. 1869 E.
A. PARKES Pract. Hygiene (ed. 3) 67 Dyspepsia..attended with..enormous
eructations after meals.
b. fig. Obs.
1647 H. MORE Poems 235 Oft the soul lets flie Such unexpected
eructations. 1683 Argt. for Union 22 They have Mental Prayer,
and..Spiritual Eructations.
2. The eruptive action of a volcano; violent emission (of flames,
etc.). Also fig.
1652 J. HALL Height Eloq. 65 The AEtna, whose eructations throw whole
stones from its depths. 1678 MARVELL Def. John
Howe Wks. (1875) IV. 234 But a perpetual eructation there is of humane
passions. 1692 RAY Phys. Theol. Disc. (1713) 19 The
mountain AEtna, at the last Eructation..disgorged..a Flood of melted
Materials. 1783 Phil. Trans. LXXIII. 161 The eructation of
elastic vapour from below. 1862 G. P. SCROPE Volcanoes 24 The column of
ashes projected becomes gradually shorter, the
eructations less frequent.
3. concr. That which is belched forth. Also fig.
1607 Schol. Disc. agst. Antichr. I. iii. 161 What is it else, but an
eructation of the minde? 1664 POWER Exp. Philos. III. 155 The
grosser Steams..are the fuliginous Eructations of that internal Fire
which constantly burns within us. 1701 tr. Le Clerc's Prim.
Fathers 104 One (Philogonius Bishop of Antioch) said, `That the Son was
an Eructation'.
------------------------------
Subject: Hawkins Amber Cider
From: peter g <peter.g@telus.net>
Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 19:49:54 -0700
hi folks,
at the Liquor Store, here in Vancouver, today i encountered a new
product offering : "Hawkins, Premium Crafted, Amber Cider" .
6 x 341ml, twist-top clear bottles, 5.5% alc/vol, CA$9.95 plus litter.
made by Hawkins Cider Company , in Oliver, BC (Okanagan region?).
attractively packaged (boxed six-pack) offers "This traditional amber
cider is crafted using only the finest ingredients. The result is an
exceptionally smooth drinking, full flavoured cider with a fresh clean
finish. Enjoy responsibly!"
i was actually pretty excited to find another choice here in BC for
apple ciders. then i read the ingredients list .
"ingredients : cider, fructose syrup and/or invert sugar, apple
concentrate, carbon dioxide, natural and artificial flavours, potassium
sorbate, ascorbic acid, sulfites."
i decided to buy a box anyway ( ya hafta try it huh?!), and then set
to work inquiring about the company. turns out that Hawkins is
actually a subsidiary of Vincor ( Vincor makes "Growers" ciders ) and
the product is marketed by Atlas Wines. i wondered if they had plans
to add any other ciders (maybe a 7% version), or packaging in 1 or 2
litre PETs, but mostly i was curious about the first ingredient ... does
"cider" mean "apple cider"? or are there other fruits involved?
(other than in conjunction with the word "concentrate" in the
microscopically small-print ingredients list, the word "apple" only
appears ONCE on the packaging, crammed into the bottom left hand
corner of the main facing ... almost an afterthought. so i was curious.
anyway, i did contact the company (Vincor), where they assured
me that Hawkins is all apple cider. no other fruits involved , but the
drink does contain honey, and caramel colouring. just why these two
additions don't appear on the ingredients list is unknown, but i had
them double check ... they're both in the product.
for those who may have other questions , there's info at ...
1-800-665-2667 or 250-498-4981
so there it is ... taste ? sort of a lightly carbed, sweetish apple
juice with a splash of vodka, flavour. an apple flavoured drink that
includes alcohol.
not exactly what i had in mind, or what the label implies.
i prolly won't go out of my way to buy another box.
[fwiw]
regards
peter g
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #901
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