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Cider Digest #0920
Subject: Cider Digest #920, 23 September 2001
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #920 23 September 2001
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
fermentation on pulp (Rod.McDonald@facs.gov.au)
Re: malic acid v. tartaric acid (Claude Jolicoeur)
Re: malic acid v. tartaric acid (Dan McFeeley)
Acid calculations ("Fred L. Johnson")
Re: absolutely amazing apples (The Lambourn Valley Cider Company)
Converting tartaric to malic (Andrew Lea)
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Subject: fermentation on pulp
From: Rod.McDonald@facs.gov.au
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 13:35:49 +1000
Regarding fermentation prior to pressing, I've done this with fruit wines just
in a bucket covered but not necessarily air-locked (layer of CO2 protecting
against oxidation/infection etc.) Would that be the method you would use for the
ground but un-pressed apples? What about for larger presses which grind straight
onto the cheese building frame (which is how our local organic orchard presses
juice). Presumably you would need a container to put the cheeses in (which means
much larger containers for the pulp fermentation than used for the juice). Is it
feasible to ferment in the cheese, especially in terms of inoculating the cheese
with the yeast? Or would you need to build the cheese later with the fermenting
apple pulp?
Ideas? Instructions? Experiences?
Ta
Rod
------------------------------
Subject: Re: malic acid v. tartaric acid
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 01:05:33 -0400
A 20:00 01.09.18 -0600, David Daly wrote :
>Subject: malic acid v. tartaric acid
>
>Hello everyone. I'm a novice home cidermaker in
>Massachusetts, and I recently purchased an
>acid-testing kit at my local homebrew supply store.
>Excited that I would now be able to have some
>empirical evidence about the amount of malic acid in
>my must (I recently made a cider that could definitely
>have used a pick-me-up)I opened my kit only to find
>that the test only indicated amounts of tartaric acid.
Dave,
The kits sold in wine supply stores give a result as tartaric acid
equivalent, which is the US standard for wine.
In France, the acidity is expressed in equivalent of sulfuric acid.
For apples, the acidity is sometimes expressed in equivalent of malic acid.
The relation between these 3 is:
1% acidity as Tartaric = 0.65% as sulfuric = 0.89% as malic acid.
By the way, if you have bought the same type of kit that is sold around
here, the instructions probably suggest to use fairly a big syringe to do
your titration - and the bottles of chemical won't last long... You can buy
a precision syringe of 1 ml (normally used for insulin) for very cheap at
any drugstore and divide all volumes by a factor of 10 - your chemical will
last 10 times longer and the precision is not affected much. The only risk
is that the pharmacist might think you are a junkie - when I explained to
my pharmacist what I wanted to do with those syringes, he looked at me in a
sort of funny way... but he sold them to me.
Claude Jolicoeur in Quebec.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: malic acid v. tartaric acid
From: Dan McFeeley <mcfeeley@keynet.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 01:47:35 -0500
Dave Daly wrote:
> . . . . Excited that I would now be able to have some empirical evidence
>about the amount of malic acid in my must (I recently made a cider that
>could definitely have used a pick-me-up)I opened my kit only to find that
>the test only indicated amounts of tartaric acid. I've been hunting around
>for a conversion table or formula, but have yet to find one.
This table below should help. You can read the corresponding acidities
for each tartaric acid reading, or use the first line for conversion
figures. For example, to change a TA figure from tartaric to malic,
multiply by 0.893. For citric, multiply the TA in tartaric by 0.933.
CORRESPONDING ACIDITIES IN PPT OF VARIOUS ACIDS
Tartaric Malic Citric Sulfuric
1.0 0.893 0.933 0.65
1.5 1.34 1.4 0.975
2.0 1.787 1.867 1.3
2.5 2.233 2.333 1.625
3.0 2.68 2.8 1.95
3.5 3.127 3.267 2.275
4.0 3.574 3.733 2.6
4.5 4.02 4.2 2.925
5.0 4.467 4.667 3.25
5.5 4.914 5.134 3.575
6.0 5.36 5.6 3.9
6.5 5.807 6.067 4.225
7.0 6.254 6.534 4.55
7.5 6.7 7.001 4.875
8.0 7.147 7.467 5.2
8.5 7.594 7.934 5.525
9.0 8.041 8.401 5.85
9.5 8.487 8.867 6.175
10.0 8.934 9.334 6.5
<><><><><><><><><><>
<><><><><><><><>
Dan McFeeley
mcfeeley@keynet.net
------------------------------
Subject: Acid calculations
From: "Fred L. Johnson" <FLJohnson@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 07:32:13 -0400
David Daly has a kit that reads out tartaric acid concentrations and he asks
about conversion of these units to malic acid concentrations.
My math tells me the following are equivalent:
1.0000 % (wt/vol) malic acid
1.1194 % (wt/vol) tartaric acid
7.3135 ppt (parts per thousand) sulfuric acid
I'd appreciate someone double checking my figures.
- --
Fred L. Johnson
Apex, North Carolina
USA
------------------------------
Subject: Re: absolutely amazing apples
From: The Lambourn Valley Cider Company <info@lambournvalleycider.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 07:37:25 +0100
In message , Dick Dunn <rcd@talisman.com> writes
>Imagine if you could crush and press apples, and ferment the juice to over
>10% alcohol! Wouldn't that be amazing? If you've ever made your cider in
>one of those "off" years when the weather cooled off too soon and the apples
>didn't quite ripen...and you ended up wondering if you'd be able to make it
>even to 5% or so for the sake of preservation...can't you imagine the
>benefit of being able to ferment some juice to an amazing alcohol level?
>
>Well, apparently there are such apples, available to commercial cider
>producers in the UK. From the "Q&A" section at the web site for "K" Cider
>(www.kcider.com) we find that "...ripe and juicy apples are crushed and
>fermented to a 12.5% alcohol level..."
>
>I think one might understand if a skeptical person suggested that there
>might be something more than apple juice used to achieve that level of
>alcohol.
>
>OK, enough kidding around. 12.5% corresponds to a starting gravity of
>around 1.100, and I just don't think you're going to find apples like that.
True, but I am advised by Kevin Minchew of Tewkesbury that in some years
Kingston Blacks will produce a cider of about 8.5% alcohol by volume
quite naturally. I was told by another cider maker in Somerset that the
original orchard of these apples in the village of Kingston St Mary was
cut down by the local women because they were fed up with their menfolk
getting legless every night on the very strong cider made from these
particular apples.
On that subject, last year (2000) was a terrible one for apple and pears
here. We had a miserable summer and a very wet autumn. All the fruit I
used was way down in sugar content, and the result was lacking in full
flavour. This year, however, looks like being a cracker!
We have had a hot, sunny summer with just the right amount of rain, and
no frosts during blossom time. Plums and damson are very abundant and
sweeter than I can ever remember. Blackberries are very prolific and
big. Most apple trees I see are bearing a huge crop, and I am confident
that the sugar level will be high. This (real!) first year of the new
millennium could be a vintage one for British cider and perry.
I am sure Andrew Lea will confirm this.
- --
Roy Bailey - Proprietor, The Lambourn Valley Cider Company
(Real cider from the Royal County)
The Malt House, Great Shefford, HUNGERFORD, Berks RG17 7ED, UK
Tel: 01488 648441 Fax: 08700 522514
URL: http://www.lambournvalleycider.co.uk/
(Please reply in plain text rather than HTML, if possible.)
------------------------------
Subject: Converting tartaric to malic
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 19:25:04 +0100
David Daly asked:
> Excited that I would now be able to have some
> empirical evidence about the amount of malic acid in
> my must (I recently made a cider that could definitely
> have used a pick-me-up)I opened my kit only to find
> that the test only indicated amounts of tartaric acid.
> I've been hunting around for a conversion table or
> formula, but have yet to find one.
The conversion factor is 0.893. In practical terms, measure and
calculate as tartaric and just multiply the figure by 0.9 to get to
malic. Not a huge difference, actually.
Andrew Lea, nr Oxford UK
- --------------------------------------
Visit the Wittenham Hill Cider Page at
http://www.cider.org.uk OR
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
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End of Cider Digest #920
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