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Cider Digest #0941
Subject: Cider Digest #941, 30 December 2001
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #941 30 December 2001
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #940, 27 December 2001 (Richard Storms)
Monitoring MLF (Andrew Lea)
East Midlands cider varieties ("Steve Rose")
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #940, 27 December 2001
From: Richard Storms <orion@iw.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 02:26:36 -0600
Whether or not I am "qualified" to respond to the various inquiries regarding
cidermaking, one needs to consider the final product.
Paying attention to styles and "brands" of apples when prepping for a run seems,
IMHO, somewhat out of line. If you are making a beverage for one's own use=85
expect some difference=85 year to year.
I did think this was a homebrew site. but it appears you (the sire) has lost
its focus.
Make your ciders and enjoy what results. Kinds, types and species genetics are
for those who want a bland product, and a PREDICTABLE one as well.
That is not what cidermaking is about.
Richard Storms
Tilford, SD.
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Subject: Monitoring MLF
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2001 10:38:52 +0000
Claude asked:
> So I would like to inquire if there is a way to know for sure if the MLF
> occurs and when. Is there a test I could do that would tell me: OK, MLF has
> started... And how long does it last? Does it occur in bottles or in the
> carboy?
One simple but tedious way I suppose would be to monitor the titratable
acidity on a regular basis (say every two weeks) and plot it out on a
graph. You would then see as it began to fall and eventually when it
plateaued.
A more direct way, but more difficult without access to a laboratory
in order to secure the reagents, is to use paper or thin layer
chromatography and to follow the disappearance of the malic acid spot
and the appearance of the lactic in its place. This is widely used in
wineries. You would still have to do this every two weeks or so and I
guess it would be useful to follow total titratable acidity at the same
time. But the advantage of TLC is that you can look at a cider at any
time in its history and make a reasonable judgement whether it has
undergone MLF or not.
One typical TLC procedure is given in
http://www.grapeandwine.com.au/jan01/010107.htm#
(NB. This page won't display in Netscape 4.7 but is fine in IE5!)
There are many others in winemaking textbooks.
There also appears to be a US mail order house called Presque Isle who
sell paper chromatography kits for MLF monitoring - no doubt there are
other sources too.
http://shop.piwine.com/shopsite/prwc/paper-ch.html#363
These procedures need no adaptation for ciders but of course you will
not see a tartaric acid spot since there is none in apples - though
there may be a small one representing quinic acid which is the second
most abundant acid in apples after malic. Oh, and it will be really
difficult to use if you've added citric acid, since the malic and citric
spots co-elute and you will not be able to distinguish them.
MLF can last weeks or months and can occur at any stage in bulk store or
bottle. Sometimes it can even occur concurrent with the yeast
fermentation (apparently this is frequently the case in Spain).
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford UK
- ----------------------------------
Visit the Wittenham Hill Cider Page at
http://www.cider.org.uk OR
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
------------------------------
Subject: East Midlands cider varieties
From: "Steve Rose" <steverose@tiscali.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2001 11:33:32 -0000
Subject: East Midlands cider varieties
From: Steve Rose - steverose@tiscali.co.uk
Date: Sat 29 Dec 2001
I have been making cider for three or four years now and have settled
down to making around 20 gallons per year using my home made press and
apple mill. I live in the East Midlands of England and make a
pilgrimage to Herefordshire to buy cider apples each autumn. Last
year I was given a lot of bramleys which I blended with my cider
varieties. Until recently I thought it had been a mistake because the
cider turned out to be so sharp that only I could drink it. My
friends all grimaced when faced with a glass of the stuff. However,
by November this year it suddenly became drinkable and although still
on the sharp side I am now enjoying it, particularly with food. This
year I have stuck with traditional cider varieties - kingston black,
norman (I'm not sure which norman) and foxwhelp.
For future use I have planted Harry Masters, Breakwell's seedling and
Tom Putt in my garden along with eating and cooking varieties.
Now comes the question. A local farming friend has decided to devote
several acres of ground to native species of trees. I have persuaded
him to include native crab apple varieties and even local cultivated
apples. Unfortunately I know of no local cider varieties. The East
Midlands is hardly known as a cider producing district but I can't
accept that cider has never been produced here. I would be grateful
if anyone could provide any information on local varieties. Failing
that has anyone any experience of West country varieties which
flourish in my region - I can at least add them to my garden
collection.
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End of Cider Digest #941
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