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Cider Digest #0926
Subject: Cider Digest #926, 25 October 2001
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #926 25 October 2001
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Press Plans (Rcapshew@aol.com)
New mixtures (Claude Jolicoeur)
Re: Using dried yeast (Claude Jolicoeur)
malolactic fermentation (" Rick Pipes Law Corp.")
Sulphury odour (Andrew Lea)
First cider continues . . . (Carmen Salvatore)
(Robert Kirby)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Press Plans
From: Rcapshew@aol.com
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 21:23:09 EDT
This year I wanted to get more capacity than my
screw-type basket press allows so I started with
a 15.5 U.S. gallon stainless steel keg. This is
the straight-sided keg style with handles built into
the keg which is used primarily for beer.
The bottom had a 3/4" hole drilled and the top
had 2 x 1" notches cut by my machine shop friend.
The top of the keg was cut out close to the edge.
To load the press I put a 1/2" cutting board cut to
a 14" diameter with 1/2" holes that rests above the hole
on the bottom. Next I put some triangular pieces of the
same material for spacers. The next layer is a 15" circular
cutting board advertised for pizza cutting. (Made by Faberware
and found for $7 each in a discount outlet - Big Lots.) The boards
are about 1/4" thick with grooves for pizza slices that provide
channels for the juice. Since the diameter of the keg is
also 15", I cut notches on the outside of the pizza boards
and drilled small drain holes on the slices of the pizza board
for drainage since there are no open sides like most presses.
A cheese of pomace is built on each pizza board in
fiberglass screen. On the final cheese I have a 1" thick x
15" diameter piece of UHMW (industrial polyethylene) for the
press plate. A 4 ton hydraulic jack sits on top on the
cheeses. A 2" wide by 1/2" thick by 18" long steel bar
goes through the handles. The jack pushes against the
bar and the juice flows.
It has worked well for pears and apples this season. Also
pressed a bushel or more grapes without any trouble.
Bob Capshew
------------------------------
Subject: New mixtures
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 23:12:09 -0400
For the first time this year, I have harvested sufficient fruit to be able
to make 2 special (for me) batches:
My first perry is mostly from Golden Spice pears, with about 20% Patten.
The Golden Spice could probably be qualified as a bittersharp: acidity
0.95% (as tartaric, i.e. 0.85% as malic), with a density of 1.064 and some
bitterness in the taste. These pears are small and firm, they press easily
with a good yield. The Patten has 0.35% acidity and a density of 1.054,
with a sweet taste.
My second special batch is mostly from English cider apples: 40% Bulmer's
Norman, 30% Brown's Apple, 20% from a local unnamed bittersweet, and the
remaining 10% from a mixture of crabs and standard apples.
Up to now, I have always made my ciders with mixtures of standard apples
with some crabs, with Cortland my main variety, and including only a small
fraction of English cider apples and/or pears. It will be very interesting
to taste the difference with these 2 new mixtures.
Claude Jolicoeur, Quebec, in climatic zone 4 (a bit cold for many varieties).
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Using dried yeast
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 23:10:59 -0400
On the subject of yeast use, it seems many of us use different methods and
do not necessarily follow the instructions printed on the label of the
yeast package.
Personnally, I mostly use the Lalvain EC-1118 which is a Champagne yeast.
Sometimes also I use the Redstar Champagne or the Redstar Prise de Mousse.
However, during the last couple of years, the Redstar yeasts heve become
very difficult to find and I seldom use them anymore.
For rehydratation, I use the following method which works very well: I heat
about 1 litre of my juice to the recommended temperature (40 - 43 C or 104
- -109 F), throw the dried yeast in and let it work about 12 hours before
inoculating the batch of juice. Using a relatively large quantity of juice
(1 litre) makes it stay warm longer. After 12 hours, there is always a good
foam, and this insures a good fermentation start.
An additional note:
If I add sulfite to the juice (a thing I seldom do), I start the yeast in 1
litre of non sulfited juice - I then heat this juice to a warmer
temperature to sterilize it and inoculate it when it cools down to the
required temperature.
Claude Jolicoeur, Quebec.
------------------------------
Subject: malolactic fermentation
From: " Rick Pipes Law Corp." <rickp@entirety.ca>
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:14:42 -0700
It is a common practice in the wine industry to do a malolactic
fermentation after the initial fermentation is complete. I am
considering doing one with a higher tannin blend that will be fermented
out to about 11%.
Does anyone have any suggestions, comments or feedback?
Thanks, rick
------------------------------
Subject: Sulphury odour
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 20:00:43 +0100
Carmen wrote:
> For this cider I used Red Star Montrachat
> yeast. My question is - is this odor 'normal' for a cider made with this
> yeast or is it the sign of trouble?
>
Unfortunately Montrachet has quite a notorious reputation as a hydrogen
sulfide producer, compared to other yeasts, in wine and cider
fermentations. It will do this in ciders with low nutrient input and
this may be made worse by the excess added sulphite it has to metabolise
in Carmen's particular fermentation!
All is not necessarily lost. It may be a bit late now to add some yeast
nutrient and vitamins (though you can try), but there is a technique of
adding copper sulfate at the end of fermnetation (IF the odour still
persists, which it may not) to trap out the hydrogen sulfide. Althougb
I've never needed to do this myself, I've recommended it to others and
it definitely does work, though possibly at the expense of 'flattening'
the flavour.
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK.
- ----------------------------------
Visit the Wittenham Hill Cider Page at
http://www.cider.org.uk OR
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
------------------------------
Subject: First cider continues . . .
From: Carmen Salvatore <carmen.salvatore@lmco.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 10:53:07 -0400
Hi,
First, I'd like to thank everyone who has responded to me both
personally and here in the digest - your comments are welcome and very
much appreciated.
I've written a couple of times now with regard to my first cider making
experience. In both instances I was a bit nervous regarding what I had
observed (lack of fermentation due to over sulfating) and what I smelled
(a sulfury odor due to Red Star Montrachat yeast). Well, last night I
racked the cider from the plastic fermentor to a carboy. I noticed that
most of the sulfur smell was gone (still there but _very_ subdued
compared to a week ago) and it had cleared quite nicely. I then tasted a
sample - not sure what I expected but this was not it! I think I made
apple wine rather than cider! For a wine it was pretty good - albeit
very rough around the edges and a bit weak/thin. I'm guessing that I
allowed the fermentation to continue too long - I have not measured the
SG but I'm sure it's about (or below) 1.000.
This raises a couple of questions. In the future if I wanted a cider
more like the commercial examples one sees on draft in the US and UK
could I stop the fermentation when the SG is somewhere around 1.015 thus
leaving a bit of residual sweetness? If so what would be a better way to
do that, via heat to kill the yeast or via chemicals? Also, since I now
have 5 gallons of weak apple wine could I kill of the yeast (again via
heat or chemicals) and then add some corn sugar to give it a bit of
sweetness??
Thank You,
Carmen Salvatore
------------------------------
Subject:
From: Robert Kirby <Robert.Kirby@ipsos.com>
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 12:40:33 +0100
I have just joined as a subscriber.
Sorry if I am using the wrong address or for the wrong reasons.
Do you have a site where a novice can ask questions?
I want to make (hard) cider
I have just built a press and pressed my first 6 (UK) gallons last Saturday
(20th Oct.), all from an old Bramley tree (planted in 1933) in Norfolk
(England). The o.g. of the must is 1054.
I have about 350 lbs more to press this weekend - (from other varieties
picked in an old, disused cider-orchard in Norfolk) - and I want to get it
right.
My problem is that my first load has not started fermenting yet - 5 days. I
have it indoors 60-70 degrees F. in a fermentation barrel with air-lock.
I do not really want to add yeasts, I'm trying for the natural ones. I have
read that it can take 2 weeks to start.
1. Is this correct?
2. Should I add yeast nutrients?
HELP!
best wishes
Robert.Kirby@Ipsos.com
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #926
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