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Cider Digest #0917
Subject: Cider Digest #917, 6 September 2001
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #917 6 September 2001
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
canadian (John Vandermeulen)
yeasts for NE style cider ("Benjamin Watson")
Re: Yeast Question (Terence L Bradshaw)
Re: Yeast Question (Pug Bainter)
Another Southworth question (Marc Montefusco)
Perry challenge ("Always and Ortiz")
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Subject: canadian
From: John Vandermeulen <vandermeulen@ns.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:07:13 -0300
Is there a Canadian group, chat-list, network of cider makers? I would not
mind getting in contact over such things as get-together, apple varieties
avail. up here, and the like.
John Vandermeulen
Oakfield, N.S,
------------------------------
Subject: yeasts for NE style cider
From: "Benjamin Watson" <bwatson@mcttelecom.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:48:48 -0400
In your opinion what the best dry or liquid yeast out there to make good ole
New England style cider?
I have been experimenting with different yeasts every year, and usually make
a "New England style" cider in addition to a regular batch. In my book
"Cider, Hard and Sweet," I define New England style cider as one that has
some form of sugar added to the must before fermentation, to yield a final
alcohol between 8 and 14 percent. Usually the added sweetener is something
other than granulated cane sugar. Maybe boiled cider (if you can buy it, or
make it) or light brown sugar.
I normally make my NE cider by adding raisins -- about 1 lb. per 5 gal.
batch -- introduced to the cider after the first vigorous fermentation is
finished. The raisins contain a lot of concentrated sugars, of course, but
also contribute tannins and yeasts. They're also a good way to restart a
stuck fermentation, which happened to my cider last winter.
The NE cider I started last fall was, well, interesting. I like it pretty
well, and most other people who've tried it have, too (or else they're good
liars). One of my cidermaking pals referred to it as "the retsina of ciders"
and it does have a slightly piney, resinous quality, which sounds awful but
isn't really. This cider should improve with storage.
For primary fermentation I used Red Star Premier Cuvee yeast (a Champagne
strain), because I wanted to ferment to dryness during the late fall and
winter. However, if you like some residual sweetness, it might be worth
trying an ale or mead yeast strain. In fact, I may try this with a gallon or
two of this year's cider, just for giggles.
The very best yeast I've found for general cidermaking, though, is Red
Star's Cote des Blancs (Epernay II). This yeast works well for me,
fermenting to dryness but leaving more of the fruit in the nose and on the
palate than I tend to achieve with Pasteur Champagne or other strains. The
only thing to remember is that Cote des Blancs likes a bit higher
temperature for fermentation -- maybe 50-55 degrees, whereas champagne
yeasts will usually work fine at 45 degrees.
I have not tried other yeasts for making cider that I routinely use for
making fruit wines. Two worth trying, though, would be Lalvin 71B-1122
(Narbonne) and Lalvin K1-V1116 (Montpellier). Both are dried in 5 gm. foil
packets, widely available, and both retain a lot of the "fruitiness" in
wines.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Yeast Question
From: Terence L Bradshaw <madshaw@innevi.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 07:06:00 -0400
I have used most all of them at one point or another; champagne, pris de
mousse, montrachet, ale, you name it. Granted all of these were dry
cultures and my sulfiting may have been on the weak side so I probably
still had a lot of wild yeast each time, which I have found to be
best. The particular wild yeast(s) that I use come from my cider
squeezer's press which goes unsterilized all season long (in fact I don't
think it has ever seen bleach). The yeast colonies on the racks are so
thick you can get an inch of the stuff by running a knife down one slat on
a rack. The main concern with this setup is the presence of acetobacter,
as there are actively working vinegar barrels in the press room. Of
course as long as you prevent things from oxidizing, to do not have to
worry about acetification. My cider is made in glass carboys and a
food-grade plastic apple juice concentrate barrel. I do not fortify the
initial batch at all and make a light 'summer cider' which is usually
bottled off in January or February. The barrel I feed slowly through this
time to allow it to continue outgassing and prevent oxidation. When the
glass is empty I then rack it into the carboys and will bottle or keg the
following september, just before the new squeeze. This 'winter cider'
turns out to be more of a traditional New England-Style with upwards to 10%
abv. Feeding sources include raisins and honey.
I do beleive that this year I will try the new Wyeast liquid cider yeast
this year in one batch to see how I like it, however.
>Okay Cider-Makers,
>
>In your opinion what the best dry or liquid yeast out there to make good ole
>New England style cider?
Terence Bradshaw
93 Stowe St
Waterbury, VT 05676
(802)244-0953
madshaw@innevi.com
The views represented by me are mine and mine only................
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Yeast Question
From: Pug Bainter <pug@pug.net>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 21:34:48 -0500
> In your opinion what the best dry or liquid yeast out there to make good ole
> New England style cider?
My personal preference is to use WhitBread Ale yeast. This is a solid
ale yeast with a lot of fruity overtones.
Ciao,
- --
Pug Bainter | AMD, Inc.
System Engineer, MTS | Mail Stop 625
Pug.Bainter@amd.com | pug@pug.net | 5900 E. Ben White Blvd
Phone: (512) 602-0364 | Fax: (512) 602-6970 | Austin, TX 78741
Note: The views may not reflect my employers, or even my own for that matter.
------------------------------
Subject: Another Southworth question
From: Marc Montefusco <mmontefusco@newworldcider.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:25:44 -0400
Has anyone had cause to question the identity of Kingston Black trees
sold by Southworth? Our first KB tree came into bearing this year, and
the apples, in addition to being fully ripe in August, did not look or
taste like other Kingston Blacks I have known. If anyone is is
interested, e-mail me off-list for a photograph. These apples were
oblong-conical, medium to medium-large, dark cherry red with darker
streaking, white-fleshed, with a light, frothy texture. They were not
noticeably tannic, and did not have the characteristic KB flavor that I
call caraway. I hope I'm wrong -- apple growing has enough
disappointments without misnamed trees.
Marc Montefusco
New World Cider
------------------------------
Subject: Perry challenge
From: "Always and Ortiz" <Altiz@rightathome.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2001 11:10:04 -0700
I'm hoping to make a perry this fall that captures the fine fragrance
that Bartlett (Williams) pears have. This is a dessert pear; fermented
alone it makes a very bland drink more similar to sparkling water than
cider. I plan to blend in 10-20% Dolgo crab apple juice, and add
tartaric acid and perhaps additional tannin. My challenge is this: the
full flavor/aroma of pears develops with ripening, When nicely ripe,
the pears will become mush in a typical apple cider grinder and press,
not allowing separation of the juice from the pulp. Crushing/pressing
when still firm will occur before full flavor development, sacrificing
the quality of the finished product. I'm interested in suggestions from
forum participants on how best to do this.
a.. Ferment a mash of ripe pear pulp, then attempt separating the
juice?
b.. Crush/press early in the ripening process?
c.. Mix a firmer material with the ripe pear pulp (apples? straw?!)
to allow the juice to flow out?
d.. Find and use a different pressing method?
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #917
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