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Cider Digest #0894
Subject: Cider Digest #894, 20 March 2001
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #894 20 March 2001
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: K cider (Andrew Lea)
Country Gentlemen! (Andrew Lea)
Cider Digest #892 and #893 (James.Luedtke@cgiusa.com)
Scrumpy (peter g)
re: Nomenclature (Dick Dunn)
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Subject: Re: K cider
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 12:22:24 +0000
T Higgins wrote
"A store here in town recently started carrying "K" brand cider, made
by Matthew Clark Brands, Bristol, UK. The label claims it is "Hand
crafted in England with the light and refreshing taste of Somerset
apples.""
K (and its newer stablemate K6) is a marketing-led designer drink which
was invented about 10 - 15 years ago by Showerings at Shepton, before
they were taken over by Matthew Clark who are now in turn owned by
Canandaigua Wineries of the US.
It has a sort of a website at
http://www.mclark.co.uk/kcider/kciderindex.htm
but this only seems to load with MS Explorer (not Netscape) and gives
very little info about the product when you get there. K is perfectly
drinkable but would not be regarded in the UK as coming anywhere near to
a 'real' cider (whatever that means!!).
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK
- --------------------------------------
Visit the Wittenham Hill Cider Page at
http://www.cider.org.uk OR
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
------------------------------
Subject: Country Gentlemen!
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 12:29:34 +0000
I recently discovered by pure chance that both Isaac Newton and Thomas
Jefferson were cider makers and growers on their estates in Lincolnshire
and Virginia respectively! Perhaps everyone else knows this but I
certainly didn't!
As we say over here, I'm dead chuffed to be in such company, and I felt
I had to share my delight with other Digest readers!
My sources for this are as follows:
'Thomas Jefferson and Agricultural Chemistry' by C A Browne in
Scientific Monthly Volume 60 Issue 1 January 1945 pp 55-62.
'Glimpses of the Human Side of Sir Isaac Newton' by Henry P Macomber
in Scientific Monthly Volume 80 Issue 5 May 1955 pp 304-309
(Note 1: For anyone in the academic world with access to JSTOR
(http://www.jstor.org/), that's how I got copies as PDF files.
Unfortunately it would be a breach of copyright for me to distribute
them further.)
(Note 2: the word 'chuffed' can mean both highly pleased or displeased,
depending on context! Though in modern UK usage it's generally the
former. According to the OED, its first recorded use in either sense
dates from around the 1860's.)
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK
- --------------------------------------
Visit the Wittenham Hill Cider Page at
http://www.cider.org.uk OR
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Digest #892 and #893
From: James.Luedtke@cgiusa.com
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:18:54 -0500
To answer Richard & Susan Anderson from digest #892, I have cider varieties
grafted on P-2, P-22, Bud-9, and seedling rootstocks. My soil is heavy clay
loam, and in one corner of the orchard-to-be tends to be quite wet in the
spring and after heavy rains. I stayed away from M-26 (the standard dwarfing
stock in our area) because of it's intolerance to water-logged soils.
Plantings will be away from my seasonal 'pond', but some trees may end up
rather close to standing water in wet years.
In digest #893, Reynold Tomes asked to purchase various scions. Reynold , it
may be too late to cut them for this spring. However, if you are still
looking, I can spare a couple of Golden Russets, and perhaps an Ashmeade
Kernel.
------------------------------
Subject: Scrumpy
From: peter g <peter.g@telus.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:55:02 -0800
gentlemen,
no flames please!
but could anyone enlighten me about the differences between cider &
scrumpy ? comments on, the addition of meat? alcohol content ?
anyone have a good recipe for scrumpy ?
feel free to email me off-list if you like ...
thanks
peter g
peter.g@telus.net
------------------------------
Subject: re: Nomenclature
From: rcd@talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:09:21 -0700 (MST)
In Digest 892, Greg Troxel <gdt@work.lexort.com> wrote:
> While I won't argue at all with Dick's comments about it being
> unfortunate that in the US unfermented juice is called both apple
> cider and apple juice, these words have distinct meanings, at least in
> and around the towns west of Boston...
The meanings (as Greg suggests) are reasonable, and are understood by some
folks in some circumstances.
Unfortunately, it's one of those situations where any word that doesn't
have a legally constrained meaning is subject to marketing manipulation.
Cider and juice are used nearly interchangeably by large producers. Just
for example, Safeway (a large national chain in the US) sells both "Apple
Cider" and "Apple Juice". Both are made from reconstituted concentrate;
both are claimed to have no additives or preservatives; they are equally
clear; exact same nutritional properties are claimed. If you held up one
container of each, side-by-side, you would be hard-pressed (sorry) to tell
the difference, save that every occurrence of "juice" on one label is
replaced by "cider" on the other. And so, even though there _is_ a
difference between (unfermented) cider and juice to some of us, and there
_should_ be some sort of difference, it appears that loose labeling and bad
marketing will efface that difference.
I'm curious what you'd find for house-brand juice/cider in a Safeway in
England.
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
...Simpler is better.
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End of Cider Digest #894
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