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Cider Digest #0841
Subject: Cider Digest #841, 23 December 1999
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #841 23 December 1999
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Newcomer to cider making.. (Christian Hedegaard-Schou I)
Worms and such (Terence Bradshaw)
precocious fruiting ("Richard & Susan Anderson")
Brewing by the Signs (YAMABREW@aol.com)
re: Brewing by the Signs (Dick Dunn)
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Subject: Newcomer to cider making..
From: Christian Hedegaard-Schou I <chs@dis.org>
Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 14:21:42 -0800 (PST)
Hello all!
This is my first season making cider, and I've already been able to drink
one batch (an apple-rasberry) that was some of the most delicious drink
I've ever had! 2 more batches are currently aging in the dark of my
closet.
Unfortunately, I've not really been able to get in contact with any
brewing clubs in my area that take note of cider. I'm located in Orange
County, CA, and would love to find a club or some other list members in LA
or orange county to share ideas, methods, bottles, stories, etc..
I'm really working hard to try to bring back cider by sharing with all my
friends and trying to get them brewing as well (already got one friend
started on his first batch). I also try to make mention of cider at all
the local brewery/restaraunts in Southern California.
Any ideas?
- --
ICQ: 8141565
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's yet another in a long series of diversions in an attempt to avoid
responsibilty" -Chris Knight, "Real Genius"
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Subject: Worms and such
From: Terence Bradshaw <madshaw@quest-net.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 07:27:40 -0500
(My old post)
> > Should you start spraying Captan willy-nilly over your trees?
> > Absolutely not! Apple trees will do fine without spraying, generally,
> > especially large, established ones. The fruit you get may be scabby and
> > wormy, but it will also be free of spray residue.
(reply from Warren Place)
> Do you mean that worms are not a problem for cider either? My
> parents have nearly 100 apple trees but due to a "retirement" state of
> mind on the part of my father and an apple maggot infestation these apples
> just fatten the local deer population. Can I press these for cider?
>
> Warren Place
To go back to my original post on this topic I will repeat that sound,
wholesome fruit that is damaged cosmetically or even worm-holed will be
fine for cider. If some sort of rot has taken over in the wormhole, I
would toss the fruit out, but a few worms will not hurt the cider. The
cloths in the press will prevent them from actually being in the
finished product, and one could say that they add a certain amount of
nitrogen for the yeast to use in multiplication.
I should note that in my area (Vermont, or anywhere East of the Rockies
for that matter) the 'apple worms' are generally the larva of the apple
maggot fly. This pest can be reduced through trapping and very
meticulous sanitation, but it takes a lot of work. I have a grower
friend here who succesfully traps them out of his 30+ acre orchard.
Would spraying be easier? Certainly. Cheaper? Most probably. Sensitive
to his land, customers, and non-target arthropods? Definitely not.
Codling moth, lesser tufted bud moth, green fruitworm, and european
apple sawfly also have larva that will burrow into the apple or its buds
at some time during the season, but it's really apple maggot and, to a
lesser degree, codling moth that we have to worry about.
These pests and many others cause me many a headache in my commercial
(dessert) crop, but I use primarily unsprayed unmanaged abandoned
farmhouse and roadside apples for my cider. What managed fruit I do use
are picker drops (Around 40-60% in a typical pick-your-own) from a
friends scab-resistant orchard, so there are no fungicides (and only one
or two insecticides) used to mess with my natural yeasts...
Regards,
Terry B
------------------------------
Subject: precocious fruiting
From: "Richard & Susan Anderson" <baylonanderson@rockisland.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 19:45:03 -0800
Rod;
What you are experiencing is common on the rootstocks you mention. Initially
you may want to remove the flowers or fruit to develop the tree. We plant
our trees about 18 months after they are bud grafted. They are pruned back
to about 30" on planting and all flowers/fruit are removed the first year
and the fruit thinned to 6" the following year to develop the scaffold
branches. Since many cider cultivars are prone to biannualism, it appears
that careful management is required each year to prevent this.
------------------------------
Subject: Brewing by the Signs
From: YAMABREW@aol.com
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 11:44:38 EST
Season's Greetings to all!
In response to Dick Dunn's article in the last Mead Digest...
As various stories (of varying accuracy) floating around the 'net have
noted, December 22 is the solstice, a full moon, and moon perigee. Seems
like an auspicious time to make a mead. (Burley had suggested in the HBD
that it would be a good date to brew a beer, but I think mead is married
more to magic, the moon, and mysticality.)
I am trying to find out if anyone makes their beverages (beer, cider, or
mead) by the signs, like on the farmers almanac calendar?
The reason that I ask is that my grandfather always did anything that dealt
with growing, such as gardening by the signs! He said that this was the only
way to do it and he always had a great gardening.
Obviously, this is some East Tennessee mysticism in my voice. But many
people still plant by the signs. My question does anyone make alcoholic
beverages by the signs?
Thanks,
Scott Danner
MAJ David S. Danner
Acquisitions Corps
Army Reserve Officer Training Corps
University of Nebraska
110 M&N BLDG
14 & Vine ST
Lincoln, NE 68505
(402) 472-4264
FAX (402) 472-2478
------------------------------
Subject: re: Brewing by the Signs
From: rcd@raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: 23 Dec 99 22:56:42 MST (Thu)
In response to Scott's question in the current digest...
> I am trying to find out if anyone makes their beverages (beer, cider, or
> mead) by the signs, like on the farmers almanac calendar?
...his and other notes that I received privately concerning my solstice/
full-moon/perigee note to the MLD: No, I don't do mead or cider "by the
signs" or by any mystical or (especially) astrological indicators or
phenomena. Or, more specifically, I don't assume that I'd be getting any
useful information from these phenomena. But if it might be time to make a
mead (say), no harm is done by choosing an otherwise-irrelevant but inter-
esting or amusing occasion for it.
Let me interject, before I continue, that I am not proposing or attempting
to start any sort of debate or argument about the epistemological, philo-
sophical, theological, or scientific merits of astrology, mysticism, old-
style almanacs, etc. I'm only trying to draw a line between what-we-do-
- -because-we-have-good-reasons and what-we-do-because-it's-what-we-choose-
- -to-do.
I *did* start a mead on Wednesday...but not because it was a significant
event so much as because it was a good excuse and I hadn't started a mead
since early in the year because of the Red Star Premier Cuvee grief and
then a mid-year full of farm chores. I let the events make an excuse for
me to do something instead of procrastinating further, and I'm sure we'll
get a good moon/mead-related name for the batch. Also, my mead-making
assistant on this date of supposed solar/lunar significance *was* born on
the Salisbury Plain within sight of the ancient and mystical astronomical
monument called Stonehenge...however, my assistant was chosen not because
of that, but because she's my wife.
A brewer who'd never look at his horoscope still might start a batch on the
date of an astrological event just so he could name the batch "Triple con-
junction double decoction doppelbock".
We tie lots of what we do to irrelevant events and dates and such. Even
the most hidebound cold-rationality scientists celebrate their birthdays,
knowing full well that the particular day has no real significance.
I think the key is to have fun but keep it in context. Signs and mystical
events and coincidences and all *are* fun, and the mind should be allowed
its flights of fancy. I don't think Harry Potter is leading anybody to
Satanism, and while _Yellow_Submarine_ may be my favorite movie I don't
expect to meet any Blue Meanies. Play the lottery if you get some fun out
of numerology or whatever, but don't bet your rent or butter'n'aig money.
Fantasy is normal and healthy, but as the saying goes, "Do not drive or
operate heavy machinery..."
We have many curious rituals, which only fail to seem strange because they
are common to us. Only when a ritual is out of usual context are we likely
to notice it much: Wassailing is an ancient tradition. Two hundred years
ago in England, nobody would have given it a second thought, but if we
went out with our friends and wassailed the trees in our proto-orchard,
our neighbors would conclude that we're way stranger than they have already
concluded we are (which would be quite a stretch). But no harm is done by
wassailing.
> The reason that I ask is that my grandfather always did anything that dealt
> with growing, such as gardening by the signs! He said that this was the only
> way to do it and he always had a great gardening.
Beware correlation _vs_ causality. If your grandfather grew up with such
ways, he probably came by them along with a lifetime of learning other
signals from the weather, the soil, and the plants themselves, which he
incorporated into his decisions. Also, if "the signs" say to do something
but the weather obviously says otherwise, people tend to ignore the signs
and do as their judgment tells them, but without invalidating their trust
in the signs.
Consider also: Perhaps somebody made a wonderful metheglin Wednesday
night, and it's going to win a competition in 2000 or 2001. Will that win
be because it was made on an auspicious night...or because planning the
mead in connection with a special occasion caused the meadmaker to put some
extra thought into the recipe and extra care into the process? (Techies,
drop in phrase "Hawthorne effect" here.)
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
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End of Cider Digest #841
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