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Cider Digest #0868
Subject: Cider Digest #868, 10 July 2000
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #868 10 July 2000
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Cider Shelf Life (Ciderist@aol.com)
In-bottle pasteurization (Andrew Lea)
Stopping fermentation (Andrew Lea)
Re: Cider from store bought juice ("Sean Cox")
yeast suggestions (Diana Schroeder)
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Subject: Cider Shelf Life
From: Ciderist@aol.com
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 05:37:10 EDT
I would tend to agree with Andrew Lea, about how long these ciders will last.
So far most of mine have reached optimum after 2-4 months in bottle, a few
however (mostly made of early apples,Gravenstein, Red Astrachen, Akane)
haven't been fit to drink for 6-8 months or even longer. (still waiting on
#14 bottled 10/98) yuch! None of mine have yet lasted beyond 2 years (I have
actually saved a couple of bottles of the good ones) they always seem to
develope an offputting kind of old flavor, I'm not sure how to describe it
but you'll start to recognize it after you've tasted (drank) enough cider. I
was very surprised that even my strong (10-11%) New England style was only
good out to a bit less than a year and a half. Perhaps I'm not keeping it
cool enough?, my basement pantry sometimes gets up to 75F or so inthe summer.
For Jonathan Peakall
I like to use frozen apple juice concentrate for priming sugar. It usually
takes 16-20oz. to bring 5 gal. up to 1001-1002 that gives allmost to much
fizz some times.
Asfore your cider becoming too dry, in my experience, by the time you figure
out how to make it stay semisweet you will like it dry.
Shaun Shepherd
Portland Or.
------------------------------
Subject: In-bottle pasteurization
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 21:53:04 +0100
Warren Place asked:
> I was wondering if you could describe the Long Ashton in-bottle pasteurization
> process in detail for us.
Well you're taking me back about 20 years but in essence the ciders were
EKS sheet filtered, sweetened, carbonated and counter-pressure
crown-capped into pint bottles. The pasteurisation tank (stainless
steel) was about 4 ft by 2 ft by 18 inches deep I think. It had a false
bottom to it and below that ran a steam pipe - the tank was filled with
cold water and the steam supply shut off thermostatically once the
pre-set temperature of
68C (155F) was reached. I'm pretty sure the bottles were stacked
horizontally in a wire cage which was then lowered into the water and
held there for 20-30 minutes. The bottles were then taken out to cool
and a new batch in a second cage could be immersed immediately (at which
the steam supply would obviously come into play again). The cycle was
repeated as long as required.
There was always a risk of cracked bottles by putting them cold into hot
water but in practice not many did crack as I recall. I don't know
whether any measurements of internal bottle temperature were ever taken
- - more likely samples were taken for microbiological assay after
processing and presumably those conditions were proven in practice to
have killed all the yeasts. Bear in mind that the near-sterile sheet
filtration would have reduced the yeast count hugely plus the
carbonation is inimical to yeast.
Andrew Lea,
nr Oxford UK
- --------------------------------------
Visit the Wittenham Hill Cider Page at
http://www.cider.org.uk OR
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
------------------------------
Subject: Stopping fermentation
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 21:49:05 +0100
Thomas Hamman asked:
> which yeast do you cider experts use if you want a 'not so dry' cider, I've
> avoided EC-1118 (champagne) for that reason and have read that an ale yeast
> will do this, what do you reckon?
and Jonathan Peakall asked:
> However, I
> imagine I could use campden tablets to halt fermentation, and then force
> carbonate. Is this dangerous i.e.. bottle bombs? Or can fermentation be
> reliably terminated?
Sadly, there can be no 'low-attenuation' yeast for cider and wine as
there is for beer. This is because virtually ALL the sugar in an apple
juice is
fully fermentable (fructose, glucose and sucrose with < 1% of sorbitol
and xylose) whereas in wort the
poorly fermentable maltose oligomers are about 50%
of the total sugars and are fermented to different extents by different
yeast strains. So the only way to preserve cider sweetness 'naturally'
is to starve the yeast of non-sugar nutrients by not adding any vitamins
or yeast food, by fermenting cold, by repeated racking / filtration to
remove the nutrients in the current yeast crop, and by choosing apples
from low nitrogen orchards if possible. An ale yeast under low nutrient
conditions maybe will ferment cider marginally more slowly than EC1118,
but that only buys time for the necessary rackings. Both will ferment to
dryness in the end, unless nutrients are limited..
Adding sulphite (Campden Tablets) at any realistic level (200 ppm is the
legal maximum in Europe) will stun the yeast but not kill it, and in an
active fermentation it will only cause a 'hiccup' for a few days. The
yeast secretes more acetaldehyde to bind the sulphite, then off it goes
again.
This problem of retaining natural sweetness in cider is one of the most
vexing for the hobby cidermaker who does not filter and
pasteurise - unfortunately there are no easy answers. Part 4 of my
Science of Cidermaking (web site below) discusses the topic further.
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford, UK
- --------------------------------------
Visit the Wittenham Hill Cider Page at
http://www.cider.org.uk OR
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider from store bought juice
From: "Sean Cox" <sean_cox@gdt1.com>
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 10:58:21 -0400
>>From: "Spence" <drwlg@coollink.net>
>>Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:28:20 -0400
>>I assume I could begin a batch of cider from store bought apple juice?
Maybe. I've made decent stuff from organic, UNPRESERVED apple cider (the
cloudy stuff). This stuff is blended for drinking, which is a different
mix than hard cider makers use, because the flavor profiles change a lot
when the yeast eats all the sugar. I've found that making cider from
"soft cider" comes out very light bodied, but excellent when chilled
(gasp, perhaps even with an ice cube or two!) as a light summer drink.
We get it at the local "good for you" supermarket for ~US$6/USGal
(conversion to AU$/l and UKP/l left to the reader) and it's unpasteurized/
unsorbated. I usually pitch some ale yeast (Munton & Fison mostly) and in
a few weeks/months when it falls clear(ish) I'll bottle with a little
sugar and let it carbonate like homebrew (a week or two). Will it win any
contests? I don't really care, I've never felt the urge to pay someone
else to drink it :-) :-)
A hint with the gallon jugs--while they make great fermenters, you have to
be sure to pour off enough cider before pitching so that there's enough
head space for the fermentation to not blow stuff all over. You'll need
an appropriate sized stopper (I don't recall the size, but it's a little
bit smaller that a 5gal carboy, you're local homebrew shop should have
them) and a normal airlock. I usually pour off a little extra cider to
"step up" my yeast a bit (I rehydrate, then add some cider a few hours
before the full pitch). This also gives enough room to shake the cider
well to aerate it before pitching.
I've done this quite a few times, as I've only now got a place to put
trees, and some nearby orchards to get more interesting juices from.
Hope this helps.
- --Sean
Andover, NH
------------------------------
Subject: yeast suggestions
From: Diana Schroeder <wesh_witch@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 08:54:18 -0700 (PDT)
Tom in Western Mass. (Skylnscrn@aol.com) wrote:
>Anyone have any favorite yeast suggestions ?
I've still got to do more experimenting before I find
a "favorite", but for right now it's "Nottingham Ale"
yeast sorry... don't remember the brand. I think the
fact that it's ale yeast is the key. It gives me
something very much like the cider I had in Somerset,
England, which is what I was going for. Not very high
alcohol, no fizzies, but a certain flavor that brings
back nice memories. Gets done quickly, too.
- --Diana
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End of Cider Digest #868
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