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Cider Digest #0850
Subject: Cider Digest #850, 23 February 2000
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #850 23 February 2000
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #848, 18 February 2000 (Rcapshew@aol.com)
Re: Perry pears (Tim Bray)
List of cider cultivars (Andrew Lea)
mother of vinegar request (Greg Appleyard)
this isn't perry! (Dick Dunn)
Oops! (Table references for paper in Digest 849) (David Pickering)
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #848, 18 February 2000
From: Rcapshew@aol.com
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 11:52:49 EST
Re: Perry Pears
You can obtain some perry pears from Cider Hill
Nursery in Winchester Illionois. Lee & Mary
Elliott have a limited supply of 2 year old cider and
perry apples. The evening is the best time to call
them at 217-882-2047.
Bob Capshew
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Perry pears
From: Tim Bray <tbray@mcn.org>
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 16:02:22 -0800
Cider Hill Nursery, 217-882-2047 has 12 perry pear varieties listed as of
November 1999.
Nick Botner in Yoncalla, OR (541) 849-2781 Has a bazillion pear varieties,
including some perry cultivars, but you might have to wait to have them
grafted.
Those are the only sources I have for vintage perry pears.
Tim Bray
Albion, CA
------------------------------
Subject: List of cider cultivars
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 08:59:21 +0000
Roger Flanders asked
> Has anyone run across a comprehensive directory of apple cultivars
> (preferably online) that attempts to provide numerical values for
> acidity, sugar content, and tannin levels? The more I read, the more
> I'm finding the traditional labels of "sweet," "sharp," "bittersharp,"
> "bittersweet," etc., confusing because different companies and authors
> sometimes classify the same cultivar in different categories, or use
> potentially ambiguous terms such as "mild subacid."
I don't know of anything on-line although there are various lists in old
books and papers which somebody could some day collate. My recollection
is that 'Processed Apple Products' edited by Don Downing (AVI
Publishers) had quite a lot of data relevant to North America (but I
don't have a copy by me as I write).
One problem is that all these parameters vary quite widely year by year
although of course there are general trends which are 'real' above the
statistical noise. Another problem is that the methods for measuring
tannin (much less so for acid and sugar) are not very accurate. Most of
the data up to the early 1980's is based on the Lowenthal permanganate
titration which was first used over a century ago. It's OK for what
it's good at, but is rarely used now and if you use a different method
you'll likely get a different answer (up to 2 fold error in some
cases). Also the tannin itself can truly vary by the same sort of
amount depending on the weather and the nutrient status of the tree.
Worth noting too that whereas a true bittersweet e.g. Dabinett can be
around 0.5% tannin, a regular dessert cultivar measured by the Lowenthal
can be < 0.01%. That's one major reason (apart from texture) why cider
bittersweets are so special and so very different to most other apples.
The old Long Ashton classification of cider cultivars by Barker (1903)
was simply that sweets and bittersweets had acids < 0.2%, while sharps
and bittersharps had acids > 0.2%. Likewise bittersweets and
bittersharps had (Lowenthal) tannin > 0.2%. The sugar level was never a
part of the classification as such since all were assumed to have high
enough gravities for the purpose.
Andrew Lea, nr Oxford, UK
- --------------------------------------
Visit the Wittenham Hill Cider Page at
http://www.cider.f9.co.uk OR
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
------------------------------
Subject: mother of vinegar request
From: Greg Appleyard <greg.appleyard@usask.ca>
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 08:52:07 -0500
Hi All,
Does anyone have a "mother of vinegar" culture that they wouldn't mind
sharing?
A drop or two placed on a clean piece of filter paper, wrapped in tinfoil
and sent in the mail would be perfect.
If you can spare a bit, please Email me at greg.appleyard@usask.ca
and we can make the arrangements.
Many thanks,
Greg
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
------------------------------
Subject: this isn't perry!
From: rcd@raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: 23 Feb 00 19:53:48 MST (Wed)
A friend pointed me at the Ace Cider web page (www.acecider.com). One link
off the home page is labeled "our perry". The product itself is labeled
"Fermented Pear Cider". I've had it and didn't much care for it, but
that's not the point.
The web page describes it as fermented apple juice to which pear essence is
added after fermentation. This is not perry at all, and I don't feel that
either the label or (especially) the home-page link is reasonable. I don't
see any excuse for "perry" or "pear cider" to be made from any fruit but
pears.
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
...Simpler is better.
------------------------------
Subject: Oops! (Table references for paper in Digest 849)
From: David Pickering <davidp@netwit.net.au>
Date: Wed, 23 Feb 00 20:22:41 +1000
[Janitor's note: The references for the table attached to David
Pickering's paper in Cider Digest 849 were inadvertently omitted.
Here they are.]
1 Charley, V.L.S. The Principles and Practices of Cider-Making. Leonard Hill,
London 1949. (Translation of La Ciderie [1928] by G Warcollier)
2 Williams, R.R. and Child, R.D. (1962) Cider apples and their characters.
in Annual Report Long Ashton Research Station 1961.
3 Williams, R.R. and Child, R.D. (1963) Cider apples and their characters.: II
in Annual Report Long Ashton Research Station 1962.
4 Williams, R.R. and Child, R.D. (1965) Cider apples and their characters.: IV
in Annual Report Long Ashton Research Station 1964.
5 Campbell, J. pers. communication
6 Anon. Publication from the British National Association of Cider
Manufacturers
7 Atkinson, F.E. and Strachan. C.C. 1949 Production of juice. Dominion of
Canada, Dept. Agr. Tech. Bull. 63.
8 Charley, V.L.S. and Harrison, T.H.J. 1939. Fruit juices and related products.
Imp. Bur. Hort. and Plant Crops Tech. Comm 11.
9 Sanders, R. 1988 The Apple Book. Philosophical Library, New York.
10 Anon. 1950. Powdery mildew of the apple. NSW Dept of Agric. Plant
Disease Lflt 13.
11 Aldwinckle, H.S., 1974. Field susceptibility of 51 apple cultivars
to apple scab and apple powdery mildew. Plant Dis. Reptr. 58 (7) 625-629.
1997 Percent scab infection and codling moth injuries in the authors
orchard February '97. No assessment of severity of infection,
presence or absence only.
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #850
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