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Cider Digest #0876
Subject: Cider Digest #876, 22 September 2000
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #876 22 September 2000
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
acid (Booth)
Re: Cider Digest #875, 12 September 2000 ("Patrick Murphy")
Re: late bloomer ("Ian A. Merwin")
No smart remarks please (Booth)
Apple Blossoms in Sept (Dave Burley)
RE: Cider Digest #875, 12 September 2000 ("Richard & Susan Anderson")
Dick's blooming tree! (Andrew Lea)
Confused cider apple tree (David Pickering)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: acid
From: Booth <kbooth@waverly.k12.mi.us>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 21:41:09 -0400
Help.....I bot a tritration kit and according to the directions my cider
has .7% acid. The books say cider should have a Ph of 3.5 to 4.0.
Me thinks two different scales are in use. Can anybody translate?
cheers, jbooth
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #875, 12 September 2000
From: "Patrick Murphy" <themurphy@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 04:36:05 GMT
Dick,
Usually I wait and see what other 'more expert' people will say but today I
thought "get in there and particpipate".
It could be that the tree was so 'shocked' by the mauling that it has
decided that it had better continue its' lineage before it dies and is now
making an effort in that direction.
An actual practice with pomme fruit, when the season or the some
characteristic of the tree is not encouraging fruiting at the desired time
of year, is to beat the trunk of the tree with a paddle. This 'scares' it
into beginning the fruiting cycle.
Please note that I say maybe and look forward to other peoples responses.
Patrick Murphy
------------------------------
Subject: Re: late bloomer
From: "Ian A. Merwin" <im13@cornell.edu>
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 20:13:44 -0400
Dick-
Fear not, your intrepid apple tree's bleated bloom is a minor
metabolic miscalculation that does not bode ill for its winter
survival. While it is not common, I have seen this on several dozen
different apple trees over the years, often when the tree was
stressed or lost leaves due to drought or disease, but sometimes also
on otherwise healthy and apparently "normal" trees. Nothing to worry
about.
As for that cosmopolitan hornworm caterpillar...given the choice,
wouldn't you rather eat apple leaves than tomato or potato leaves?
Perhaps it represents a nouvelle cuisine trend in the arthropod
realm...
____________________________________
************************************
Ian A. Merwin (im13@cornell.edu)
Associate Professor, Pomology & International Agriculture
118 Plant Sciences, Dept. of Horticulture
Cornell University, Ithaca, NY, 14853
Work phone: 607-255-1777. Home phone: 387-5312.
URL. http://www.fvs.cornell.edu/Faculty/php/IanMerwin/iam.html
------------------------------
Subject: No smart remarks please
From: Booth <kbooth@waverly.k12.mi.us>
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:43:16 -0400
OK....OK....I was lazy and didn't get my cider bottled, and one plastic
pail had a split in the top and after two years, well, I have a
wonderful 5 gallons of beautiful vinegar. The "mother" was a full inch
thick, it smells and tastes great and I'm ready to shop for slicers to
get a years worth of pickles put up.
Now....commercial vinegars are cut with water to a standard acidity, but
how strong is my cider? My PH test slips bottom out at 4.0 and I'm
lower than that. When I used my titation kit, I put in the 10 cc sodium
hydroxide, then 10 more, then 10 cc more and in the 15 cc of vinegar
with three drops of coloring agent and nothing. So, I doubled then
tripled the coloring agent and still nothing. Ran out of agent.
So, how do I figure out what blend of my vinegar and water to use in
recipes? I really don't want to taste test that much to compare it with
store vinegar.
Finally, is there any special sanitation procedures I should follow, or,
should I toss my plastic pail and airlock.
puckerly yours....jim booth
------------------------------
Subject: Apple Blossoms in Sept
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley@compuserve.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:17:44 -0400
Dick,
I saw such a phenomenon when oak trees were denuded by worms in New Jersey
a decade or so ago. Springtime in July. Luckily the denuding was followed
by adequate rain which allowed the trees to survive.
I have had a similar experience with grapevines this season. My newly
planted experimental vineyard although drip irrigated got a thorough
dousing for several weeks in early August after substantial drought
conditions since April. After that the vines grew incredibly. You could
almost see them grow. My Petite Sirah Bloomed in August and put on grapes!
This was on 10-20 ft vines which were dormant foot-long sticks in April. I
assume the drought forced the vines into a sort of dormancy and they
decided it was a new year. As grapes need dormancy to fruit, this technique
of pruning and holding back water is used in Tropical climates ( e.g.
India) to get grape production. Did you also have drought?
Dave Burley
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Cider Digest #875, 12 September 2000
From: "Richard & Susan Anderson" <baylonanderson@rockisland.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:06:07 -0700
Regarding the late season flowers. R.R. Williams(Cider and Juice Apples:
Growing and Processing) writes "The commonest feature signifying the onset
of biennialism is the appearance of additional blossom, resulting from the
formation of axillary flower buds on the current season's extension growth".
The problem being that the new growth as well as the old growth will flower
the following year. So much for the bad news. We have seen a few trees do
this in our orchard, mostly on a variety not prone to biennialism, and have
not experienced a problem to date. However this is a fairly new orchard and
we lack cultural experience and information. Biennialism in cider apples
seems to be common and preventing it is not an easy task. We hand thin
extensively and summer prune to limit the formation of flower buds for next
year's crop. Maybe some of the more experienced growers or pomologists can
shed light on the subject.
------------------------------
Subject: Dick's blooming tree!
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 11:57:50 +0100
Dick Dunn wrote:
> But yesterday when I was mowing around the trees, I saw a *blossom* on this
> tree! Now, I'm in the northern hemisphere...we are at the end of summer
> and around here we're perhaps a few weeks from our first frost. Is this
> tree just temporarily confused, or is there something I should do to it to
> help it find its way back to reality-as-we-know-it before winter arrives?
> - ---
I think this phenomenon is what they call 'return bloom' and is quite
common in trees that have been under even moderate stress. I've seen it
with me on both apples and plums in several seasons (also I think on
wild hawthorn, another rosaceous fruit). Presumably flower buds that
have lain dormant are suddenly switched on, or perhaps new leaf buds
metamorphose due to environmental pressures. The flowers are unlikely
to 'set' now, so I don't think any damage is done just by ignoring it.
Can we have a definitive statement on this one from a pomologist - Ian
Merwin, are you out there?
Andrew Lea
nr Oxford UK
- --------------------------------------
Visit the Wittenham Hill Cider Page at
http://www.cider.org.uk OR
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
------------------------------
Subject: Confused cider apple tree
From: David Pickering <davidp@netwit.net.au>
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 19:47:31 +1000
Let there be no panic - the tree is confused but it is certainly not
terminal. Probably the worst that will happen is that this newly created
tissue will be soft and consequently will be taken out by the frost. It
hasn't had the time to harden off like tissue that developed through
spring/summer/autumn. This odd flowering can happen with both spur
bearing and tip bearing cultivars of cider apples and also with the
eating and cooking apples.
You say the tree is young, so if it is still being trained it is
probably best to prune this little aberration off during the winter
pruning so that vegetative growth follows in the following spring. This
way the tree development will continue to go according to your plan
without having early bearing starting to 'stunt' the tree. If the tree
is at your required size then it doesn't really matter.
Strange to say this kind of blossom can often happen with apple trees
and given suitable weather and insect vectors the late flowers could be
pollinated and set fruit. This is of course assuming there was something
flowering to provide suitable pollen at the same time.
I suggest that you don't plan on making cider from these late flowers
though - too little and too late.
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #876
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