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Cider Digest #0839
Subject: Cider Digest #839, 10 December 1999
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #839 10 December 1999
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Why unpasteurized Cider? (phil sides jr)
Re: Cider Digest #838, 6 December 1999 (Dave Kain)
Another Bulmer acquisition (Andrew Lea)
sweetening and bottling ("Brown, Thomson")
Cider in Michigan ("K. Sprague")
PFOB (1 of 2) (Cider Digest)
PFOB (2 of 2) (Cider Digest)
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Subject: Re: Why unpasteurized Cider?
From: phil sides jr <psides@carl.net>
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 12:07:55 -0500
Matthew Comstock asks:
>bottles last night tasted great. Anyway, could someone point out the
>difference between using pasteurized or unpasteurized juice -
>especially where I am trying to avoid spontaneous fermentation by using
>*my own* choice of yeast. Preservative free seems more important.
The experts out there can proffer far more than I on this subject, but
I'll take a shot:
Pasteurization kills the pectic enzymes in the unfermented cider. These
enzymes are responsible for the natural clearing of the cider.
Fermented, pasteurized cider, will often be cloudy and not clear
properly. Pasteurization also degrades compounds that contribute
complex and fruity aromas and a delicate fruitiness of flavor.
Pasteurized ciders are often described as lifeless or one-dimensional
and lack these subtle complexities virtually always found in
unpasteurized ciders.
Phil Sides, Jr.
Concord, NH
- --
Macht nicht o'zapft ist, Prost!
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #838, 6 December 1999
From: Dave Kain <dpk1@nysaes.cornell.edu>
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 16:04:37 -0500
RE: Scab
<fontfamily><param>Geneva</param>Does anyone know of any studies, or
has anyone done any themselves, that have purposefully evaluated any
scab resistant cultivars for their quality as (hard) cider varieties?
</fontfamily>
David P. Kain
Dept. of Entomology
New York State Agricultural Experiment Station
Geneva, NY 14456
email: dpk1@nysaes.cornell.edu
Phone 315-787-2341
------------------------------
Subject: Another Bulmer acquisition
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 20:02:20 +0000
Just for you guys on the west side of the pond, I see that HP Bulmer
have now bought the American Hard Cider Company. They plan to run it
together with Green Mountain which they already own. I read that this
now gives Bulmer the biggest market share in cider in North America.
Conversely, as many of you will know, the Canandaigua Wine Company of
upstate NY already own our second biggest cidermaker which is Matthew
Clark (owner of the Taunton and Gaymer brands). Funny old world!
Andrew Lea, nr Oxford, UK
- --------------------------------------
Visit the Wittenham Hill Cider Page at
http://www.cider.f9.co.uk OR
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
------------------------------
Subject: sweetening and bottling
From: "Brown, Thomson" <umbrow24@cc.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 23:26:48 -0600
In about 2 months, I have 5 gallons of hard apple cider ready for bottling:
OG: 1.065 (sugar, & molasses added),
yeast: Lalvin EC-1118
It has since fermented out to sugar exhaustion, but remains a little on the
tart side.
When I bottle, I hope to sweeten to medium dryness, and to carbonate
naturally in the bottle. What is the best way to do this - I do not have a
filter, and would prefer not to use allot of additives.
Jarrod Brown
Winnipeg, MB
------------------------------
Subject: Cider in Michigan
From: "K. Sprague" <spraguek@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:46:19 +0000
To Phil,
I live in Grand Rapids. We have collected most all of the necessary
paperwork for just such your friend's endevor. In a nutshell, the
person who mentioned starting with you local municipality, then the
state, then the feds is right on.
The state of Michigan classifies cider as wine. This is a good thing,
because unlike beer, the wine maker can
handle his own distribution. Beer manufacturers HAVE to sell through
a distributor, thus reducing your profits.
As far as sampling ciders, most ciders available in Michigan are
of the fizzy, soda pop type. Your friend has to
make a decision as to which kind of cider he wants to make: i.e.
fizzy soda pop or the exquisite still ciders made in the rest of the
world (particulary English ciders.) There is currently a cider made
by two gentlemen here (actually its made by St. Julien in Paw Paw).
The English cider is going to be a hard sell because people in
America like the fizzy sweet fake stuff. With education though,
anything is possible.
The next challenge is the correct mix of apples. Unfortunately, most
of the apples grown in Michigan are of the grocery store varieties,
i.e. insipid, no-flavour types. If your friend has an older orchard,
he may have some varieties that would make a respectable cider. We
have experimented with all of the most common varieties and have had
little luck producing a drinkable cider (we have planted 100 cider
apples, mostly English varities). Your friend may be able to use his
apples mixed with apples he can source elsewhere?
The picture I'm beginning to form about this business is that the cider
making process is
going to take appoximately a year. From pressing to fermentation to
aging, about a year to a sellable product. Of course with a
continous process, one can have a continous supply of product. An
intresting note, Clyde's Cider Mill in Mystic, CT generally follows
this one year cycle, selling all of their product out in the fall.
Clyde's makes some fine, English style farmhouse ciders.
Thats where we are at. We are learning to take care of apple trees.
When we get that part down, we plan to plant more and open a small
farmhouse cider operation. If you would like to talk further, give
me a shout (spraguek@earthlink.net).
Kevin Sprague
------------------------------
Subject: PFOB (1 of 2)
From: cider@raven.talisman.com (Cider Digest)
Date: 10 Dec 99 21:54:39 MST (Fri)
[Janitor's note: This article was originally posted to the Mead-Lover's
Digest by Brian Lundeen. With Brian's permission I am re-posting it here
because I think it might be of interest and stimulate some discussion. I
am not trying to claim (nor is Brian) that PFOB is applicable _per_se_ to
cidermaking, but rather that we may find some nearby experiences, know-
ledge, etc., that may be of use. -janitor]
Subject: RE: Mead Lover's Digest #769, 25 November 1999
From: "Brian Lundeen - F102" <blundeen@rrc.mb.ca>
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 13:07:46 -0600
[deleted, a note cautioning against early oxidation -janitor]
Absolutely, you will get oxidative browning. However, whereas you regard
this as a problem, I belong to a growing number of winemakers who believe
that pre-fermentation oxidative browning, or PFOB, is a good thing. I do not
fully understand the chemistry behind it, but the theory is that the
oxidized compounds drop out during fermentation, and actually leaves you
with a wine that is fresher and less prone to oxidation problems later in
its life. The key is to not use any sulfites which can bind the oxidized
components and keep them in the wine. With careful sanitation,
pasteurization of the honey, and adequate pitching rates, I do not see the
need to add sulfites at the start. I have used PFOB on premium grape musts
that I know did not have sulfites added to them, and have not experienced
any oxidative properties in the finished products. I vividly recall one of
the first wines I used this technique on was a Muscat Canelli, which is a
fairly dark juice as whites go. Before fermentation, it looked like 5
gallons of cafe au lait, with not a whole lotta lait. 5 years later, the
wine is still drinking beautifully. Now maybe I'm incorrect in assuming that
a honey must will behave the same as a grape must. However, I'm willing to
take that risk. I am starting another mead soon, and plan to PFOB it with my
air stone. I will let the MLD know how it turns out.
Brian
------------------------------
Subject: PFOB (2 of 2)
From: cider@raven.talisman.com (Cider Digest)
Date: 10 Dec 99 21:59:32 MST (Fri)
[Janitor's note: Following on from the previous article from the MLD, I
had asked Andrew Lea in private mail to comment on whether this matter of
"pre-fermentation oxidative browning" was reasonable, and more to the
point, whether it might be relevant to cidermaking. With Andrew's per-
mission, here is his reply. -janitor]
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 20:13:28 +0000
...None of it's poppycock - but 'tain't simple neither! First of
all let's dispose of the yeast aeration thing - generally aeration of a
wine yeast starter is a good thing because it allows the synthesis of
sterols which are necessary for yeast cell wall building, and a high
alcohol fermentation can stick if this factor is limiting. It applies
to grape wines and can apply to cider IF you're making a high alcohol
cider with added sugar syrup or apple juice conc near to the alcohol
tolerance of the yeast (say > 12%). I don't really think it applies to
normal small scale cidermaking. I have an open mind on mead since I
know too little about it but, since I guess meads are generally limiting
in the more complex nutrients, it might have a benefit here also.
But how many people want a really dry mead anyway? Nonetheless,
vigorous aeration of a yeast starter can do no harm so far as I know.
Whereas vigorous oxidation of a grape must or apple juice is generally
not recommended......
..... except that in recent years, in very warm climates such as Spain,
Southern Italy and Australia, pre-fermentation oxidative browning (PFOB)
or 'hyperoxidation' has become very popular as your correspondent
suggests. It's a technique to minimise the post-fermentation browning
which has often bedogged white wines from these areas and made them less
favoured than wines from more temperate zones. This is done as soon as
the juice is expressed from the fruit because the active PPO
(polyphenoloxidase) enzyme must be present for this to work. Browning
proceeds apace and the brown products precipitate out during
fermentation and at racking. The result (if done properly!)
is a light coloured wine with no further tendency to oxidative browning.
But (quote from Andrew Ewart in 'Fermented Beverage Production' eds Lea
and Piggott) "the loss of fresh fruit characters from this treatment may
not be detrimental to full-bodied full-flavoured wines but does detract
from the floral fruity style wines". I understand it's used a lot now
to make Fino sherries (in Jerez) which otherwise suffer from chronic
browning and haze problems (especially since sherry is by definition an
oxidised wine but Fino is the lightest style)
In cidermaking it was traditionally done as a part of the
'maceration' technique where the milled pulp was held prior to keeving.
If sufficent air can gain access, the juice tannins can be polymerised
back on the pulp thus giving a lighter coloured juice and cider with
less astringency. This was very valuable to reduce the high tannin from
the bittersweet apples common in the UK and France in the past. But for
most cidermakers nowadays, the problem is too
little tannin, not too much, so its potential value is not so great.
Apple ciders have generally much less body than grape wines anyway so my
worry would be that by doing this for cider you'll just end up with
something very insipid. Aerating cider juice (not pulp) in this way is
less satisfactory than for white grape juice anyway because most apple
PPO is
insoluble and membrane bound whereas in grapes it's more soluble. So to
make it work for apples you really have to do it on the pulp!
...
- --------------------------------------
Visit the Wittenham Hill Cider Page at
http://www.cider.f9.co.uk OR
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #839
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