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Cider Digest #0880
Subject: Cider Digest #880, 31 October 2000
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #880 31 October 2000
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Replicating English Cider Blends (Dick Dunn)
RE: twist-off capping ("Brian Lundeen")
Re: Subject: capping twist-top bottles? ("Iain Wyder")
RE: capping twist-top bottles? ("Ross McKay")
Capping Twist Off Bottles (Rcapshew@aol.com)
Re: Cider Digest #870, 1 August 2000 (Shroom)
Cider Digest #879, 24 October 2000 (Dave Burley)
2000-2001 cider (Terence L Bradshaw)
followup on capping twist-top bottles (eli+@gs211.sp.cs.cmu.edu)
Cider press (David Pickering)
Cider from "non-cider" apples (David Pickering)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: Replicating English Cider Blends
From: rcd@raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: 24 Oct 00 11:33:03 MDT (Tue)
Shaun Shepherd (Ciderist@aol.com) wrote:
> Reynold Tomes asked about replicating English cider blends using ordinary
> American apples. I don't know about replicating, but I've had some success
> making cider of that style by adding 1-1 1/2 tsp. powdered wine tannin per
> 5gal carboy, as suggested by Paul Correnty in his book The Art of Cider
> Making...
While I won't say that Shaun (or Paul) is wrong, I will suggest that even
1 tsp is a LOT of tannin for 5 gallons, and that other opinions would be
to use far less. I'd start with no more than 1/2 tsp...not only because
too much tannin can throw the balance off (esp. if you have a low-ish
starting gravity), but because you can taste it if you get too much. The
typical wine-making tannin seems to be extracted from grapes.
[For non-US readers: 5 US gallons is 19 liters. A tsp of tannin is about
5 ml or about 3 g in the typical fine powder available to us.]
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
...Simpler is better.
------------------------------
Subject: RE: twist-off capping
From: "Brian Lundeen" <blundeen@rrc.mb.ca>
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:42:09 -0500
> I have only ever bottled cider in plain unthreaded bottles, but I've
> accumulated some twist-off bottles that I could put cider in. Will a
> crown-capper used on these form a proper seal? I tried it and the cap
> was superficially water-tight, but I'd like to check that it's good
> for long-term storage.
>
> Thanks,
> - --
> Eli Brandt
Many brewers use twist-off bottles for packaging their beers with no
problems in sealing. Problems can arise because twist-off bottle necks are
thinner than in unthreaded bottles. If you are using a hand-capper that
grips the neck of the bottle, you could encounter breakage as you are about
to seal your precious cider. If you are going to use twist-off bottles, I
would strongly recommend investing in a bench capper, if you don't already
have one. They are about $25 and well worth the investment.
Cheers,
Brian
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Subject: capping twist-top bottles?
From: "Iain Wyder" <wyder@dccnet.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:25:56 -0700
In response to eli+@gs211.sp.cs.cmu.edu question.
First a question - are the bottles 12 or 22 ounce (355/650 ml) beer bottles?
You mention that you have used your crown capper so I assume the diameter is
the same as the standard crown cap.
If your answer is "yes" then you should have no problem - I have
successfully stored both strong beers and ciders using twist off caps. In
fact the company that has my name is using this type of closure for its
commercial operations.
Cheers,
Iain Wyder
Pilgrim's Estate Consultants
38 -3459 River Road West
Delta, BC Canada V4K 4Y9
Direct Voice 604 946 9292; Cell 604 250 8164
Fax 604 940 9293 email wyder@pilgrimsestate.com
Corporate site: http://intouch.ca http://pilgrimsestate.com
------------------------------
Subject: RE: capping twist-top bottles?
From: "Ross McKay" <rmckay@webaware.com.au>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 08:56:26 +1000
> From: eli+@gs211.sp.cs.cmu.edu
>
> I have only ever bottled cider in plain unthreaded bottles, but I've
> accumulated some twist-off bottles that I could put cider in. Will a
> crown-capper used on these form a proper seal? I tried it and the cap
> was superficially water-tight, but I'd like to check that it's good
> for long-term storage.
I've used twist-top bottles successfully, no problems seen yet. I can't
really comment on "long-term storage", as I've only had beer and cider in
such bottles for max. 10 months, but I can't see them being any different.
By crown capper, I presume you have one of the lever-action bench models,
which works just fine with twist-top bottles. You need a bit more elbow
grease than with the crown tops, but it works just the same. When I had to
do a bottling without my bench capper (had loaned it to someone), I resorted
to using the old hand-held capper that you hit with a mallet, and lost
several bottles (beer only - don't worry!) as these bottles are somewhat
thinner than the crown tops.
regards,
Ross.
------------------------------
Subject: Capping Twist Off Bottles
From: Rcapshew@aol.com
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 20:06:02 EDT
Eli,
Whenever we encounter capped twist off bottles in
homebrew competitions we almost always find some
oxidation or often flat beer. I would not recommend
using crown caps on twist off threaded bottles. It isn't
worth the chance of losing some precious cider.
Bob Capshew
Southern Indiana
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #870, 1 August 2000
From: Shroom <shroom@theriver.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 10:39:48 -0700
> But as a craft cidermaker I feel uneasy about artificial
> sweeteners, not from any issue of food safety but simply because it's a
> 'cop-out' and makes life too easy. We wouldn't dream of adding it to
> wine or beer, so why to
> cider? Yet I know that retention of natural sweetness is one of the
> most difficult problems a craft cidermaker has to address (witness many
> postings on this Digest) and that nearly all mainstream commercial
> ciders are artificially sweetened (saccharin and acesulfame are
> widespread in the UK). What do other people feel?
>
> Andrew Lea
>
I have to agree, if you're homebrewing, why resort to artificial means. One of
the attractions of making it yourself (besides the "hey, that's cool, I made my
own alcohol") is that it doesn't have any potentially harmful chemicals - and
let's face it, something everyone agrees is harmless today could show up as a
carcinogen in 20-30 years. If you're making a product you have to get out the
door to appeal to a large market, then you do what you have to, I can understand
their using additives, and as long as I like the taste, I don't mind buying
their product on an occasional basis.
I'll admit to cheating, though. I use honey in the primary ferment, making
cyser rather than cider. Depending on the honey and the amount, it can act
like any other sweetener, working behind the apples, or it can take over the
flavor profile in the case of "sweet" cyser. I still have a few bottles of
the 8/1997 batch (bottle-conditioned sparkling very sweet cyser) which are
still just as good as originally. Because of the high honey content, they
did take about 9 months to settle into drinkability. The latest completed
batch of sparkling, with about 2/3 the honey, was drinkable after about 3
weeks, just long enough to complete the carbonation. I'm willing to bet this
batch will also be just as good in three +
years, mostly due to the preservative effect of the honey. It's the best
antibacterial additive I've found yet - never has a cyser had a bacterial
infection either in primary or in bottles.
I recently visited the Richardson Farm/Winery near Essex Mass, and sampled their
various ciders and fruit wines. They have quite a variety, including an
elderberry/gooseberry combination that was quite good. Their dry and medium dry
ciders were really dry, their "sweet" had just a bit of residual sugar.
Unfortunately, I found that most of their products had a definite sulfury
aftertaste, from whatever yeast they use (I never did talk to the brewmaster, he
was out). This is really too bad.
Fred B
Tucson AZ
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Digest #879, 24 October 2000
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 16:39:46 -0400
Avram,
If you are even just a little handy with tools you can make your own cider
press. Check out the web for designs and write to manufacturers for ideas
------------------------------
Subject: 2000-2001 cider
From: Terence L Bradshaw <madshaw@quest-net.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 09:58:04 -0400
>What does everyone else have going?
>Chad
I have one barrel and three carboys going this year.
Squeeze 1:
Apples harvested in Burlington, VT 9/29/00, pressed 9/30/00
1 part Redfield crab (RED fleshed!): Brix 11.0, pH 3.2
1 part Gala: Brix 11.0, pH 3.6
1 part NY74828: Brix 11.0, pH 3.4
a few Northern lights thrown in.
Squeezed on a small hand press for 17 gallons total. Residual sulfite in
the carboys from cleaning. Added Wyeast 3766 Liquid Cider Yeast added, 1
package divided between three carboys (call me cheap).
Fermentation began around 10/7
Squeeze 2:
Harvested 10/19 in Charlotte, VT
1/2 part Northern Spy
1/2 part Lady
3.5 parts Golden Delicious
1.5 parts Spartan
Harvested 10/13 in Burlington, VT
3 parts Haralson
1 part Redfield
Squeezed 10/20 on a large screw press in S. Washington, VT. This press is
never disinfected an has lots of wild yeast buildup on it. There are also
three 400-gallon vinegar vats behind the press, so oxidation is a major
issue here. That aside, I have tasted (and made myself) plenty of
excellent ciders from this press. Yield: 55 gallons.
Siphoned carboys from press one into my basement barrel. This is a
food-grade plastic barrel which previously was used for cheap bulk wine
shipment. Barrel was cleaned with a bleach solution, rinsed, rinsed with
sulfite solution, and rinsed again just before filling.
Siphoned squeeze 2 juice on top of sqeeze 1. When the barrel was full,
filled three original carboys (squeeze 1) with this blend, right on top of
the yeast. Barrel was topped off and no further yeast added.
All three carboys were in vigorous primary ferment within 12 hours. The
barrel took about 36 hours to get going. All are going now....
Side note: For sanitizing small items I have taken to soaking in rubbing
alcohol, then falming the residue off them. Any thoughts on this?
====================================================================
Terence Bradshaw Pomona Tree Fruit Service
93 Stowe St PO Box 258, Chelsea, VT 05038
Waterbury, VT 05676 madshaw@quest-net.com
(802)244-0953
The views represented by me are mine and mine only................
------------------------------
Subject: followup on capping twist-top bottles
From: eli+@gs211.sp.cs.cmu.edu
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 16:12:40 -0400 (EDT)
I asked about using an ordinary crown-capper on twist-top bottles, and
got a few replies in email which I thought I'd summarize for the list.
Two people said they'd done this and it worked, though one I'm not
sure he was talking about the same kind of capper. Two people said
they hadn't done it because they had information indicating it
wouldn't work, wasn't O2-tight. One of the latter made the good point
that when you compare the effort put into making the cider with the
extra effort to get known-good bottles, it's a no-brainer.
- --
Eli Brandt | eli+@cs.cmu.edu | http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~eli/
------------------------------
Subject: Cider press
From: David Pickering <davidp@netwit.net.au>
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:59:39 +1000
Firstly, beware of well meaning, physically fit friends who offer to
help with the cider pressing!
My home built press (I think it was my Mk_IV) was essentially destroyed
during last summer's cider production and I'm now trying to design and
build starting from scratch. I would welcome comments on the various
aspects of presses, perhaps what styles do work and what sort of
features don't.
Besides the basic design help I would like to hear comments on whether
to pursue relatively high pressing-pressures in order to extract
additional components from the apple pulp. I am thinking of this in
terms of the cider that can be produced from the juice rather than
extracting the maximum volume of juice from a given weight of apples.
------------------------------
Subject: Cider from "non-cider" apples
From: David Pickering <davidp@netwit.net.au>
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 21:02:28 +1000
The topic of making cider from apples that are not thought of as cider
apples occasionally comes up in the cider digest.
Can I suggest to the brethren in the northern hemisphere to put down a
small trial batch of a cider produced from either Granny Smith
(originally Australian) or Gala (originally New Zealand) apples. These
varieties are probably becoming more readily available up north as
imported fruit or fruit locally grown in your part of the world and
although taste is undoubtedly a personal thing they should be a pleasant
suprise as cider.
Try each as a 100% varietal or try blending them.
If you have a choice with the Granny Smith select the more mature fruit
that is going from solid deep green to a whiter green.
The Gala can also provide a good base juice to which scarcer cider juice
can be added.
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #880
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