Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #0855
Subject: Cider Digest #855, 28 March 2000
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #855 28 March 2000
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Ace Ciders / Cider Tasting Notes ("Michael L. Hall")
Degorgement (Tim Bray)
Apples for Zone 10? (Tim Bray)
Re: Perry (Claude Jolicoeur)
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
When subscribing, please include your name and a good address in the
message body unless you're sure your mailer generates them.
Archives of the Digest are available for anonymous FTP at
ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/cider.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Ace Ciders / Cider Tasting Notes
From: "Michael L. Hall" <hall@galt.lanl.gov>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 09:33:55 -0700 (MST)
I am making, slowly, a collection of notes on commercial ciders.
These include all the information on the bottle label, tasting notes,
and then a semi-objective rating. I say semi-objective because, while
I am a National BJCP judge and have judged beer, mead and wine
objectively in competitions, I have less experience with cider and
more importantly, I judged most of these ciders separately, which
doesn't allow you to compare between ciders and gives other variations
due to your body/mood changing from day to day. Also, this was not a
blind judging.
That said, after all the discussion of Ace Ciders I thought that the
info I have on the labels might come in handy. I am including the
entire list for your enjoyment. I would be interested to hear other
opinions of commercial ciders.
Cheers,
Mike
============================================================================
Michael L. Hall, Ph.D. <mailto:Hall@lanl.gov>
President, Los Alamos Atom Mashers <http://hbd.org/atommash>
Member, AHA Board of Advisors <http://www.beertown.org/aha.html>
============================================================================
I drink for the thirst to come.
Francois Rabelais, French Writer and Humorist
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ace Fermented Pear Cider, Produced and Bottled by the California Cider
Company. Graton, CA 95444, ph. 415-499-9463, 6 %/v, 22 fl. oz. bottle,
155 calories / 11 oz., Ingredients: "Cider stock, malic acid, potassium
sorbate, concentrate (as a sweetener), sulphur dioxide ( preservative)
and natural flavors", "Ace Cider is a premium fermented cider made in the
heart of California's pear orchards in Sebastopol, Sonoma County. It is
handcrafted at our micro-cider mill. Ace Pear is unique in being the first
ever pear cider to be made in California. Ace is fermented from only pure
fruit juices. This gives the cider its fresh, fruity taste. Ace is extremely
refreshing, lightly carbonated and a healthy, exhilarating alternative to
the heaviness of beer or high alcohol content of wine. Ace Pear Cider is a
very versatile drink. It can be served chilled, over ice or as a mixer. Try
Ace with pilsner or a stout...Enjoy!", label shows an ace from a deck of
cards with a yellow-green pear where the spade symbol would be.
Tasting notes: Very light in body. Not sour. Some winey character. Light
carbonation. Light "pear" character. Sweetish, but still a dry
finish. Slightly sour.
Rating: 7-7.5/10
Ace Fermented Apple Cider, Produced and Bottled by the California Cider
Company. Graton, CA 95444, ph. 415-499-9463, 6 %/v, 22 fl. oz. bottle, 155
calories / 11 oz., Ingredients: "Fermented apple juice, malic acid, apple
concentrate (as a sweetener), potassium sorbate and sulphur dioxide (as
preservatives)", "Ace Cider is a premium fermented cider made in the heart of
California's apple orchards in Sebastopol, Sonoma County. Unlike most other
cider brands, Ace is fermented from only pure apple juice. This gives the
cider its fresh, natural apple taste. Ace is extremely refreshing, lightly
carbonated and a healthy, exhilarating alternative to the heaviness of beer
or high alcohol content of wine. Ace Cider is a very versatile drink. It
can be served chilled, mulled or as a mixer. Try Ace with pilsner, stout
or orange juice...Enjoy!", label shows an ace from a deck of cards with
a red apple where the spade symbol would be.
Tasting notes: Aromas of a white wine, maybe a Chardonnay. Some diacetyl.
Medium winey acidity. Straw colored. Low effervescence. Grassy notes.
Low to medium sweetness -- medium dry. Low apple character.
Rating: 6.5/10 (lower this score?)
Dry Blackthorn Fermented Cider, made by Taunton Cider, Norton Fitzwarren,
Somerset, England, imported by Thames America Trading Co., San Rafael, Ca.,
5.8%/v, 173 calories/11.2 oz., ingredients: "fermented apple juice,
carbonated water, sugar, malic acid, citric acid, sulfur dioxide", label
shows the name in white on a black background with gold embellishments at top
and bottom.
Tasting notes: Winey character in the aroma, grassy and sour smell. Slightly
sour taste, but sweeter than I was expecting. Medium low sweetness. Light
apple character. Light straw color. Very clear. Medium carbonation.
Rating: 4/10 (was it that bad compared to Hornsby's?)
Bulmers Woodpecker Medium Sweet Cider, made in England by HP Bulmer Limited,
Hereford, imported by Wisdom Import Sales Co. Inc., Irvine, CA 92714, 4.2
%/v, 9.3 oz., 90 cal/8 oz., ingredients: "made from fermented apple juice,
carbonated water, sugar, malic acid, yeast with ascorbic acid, contains a
sulfiting agent, sulfur dioxide", label shows a woodpecker on a red
background.
Tasting notes: Light to medium body. Light golden color. Lightly
effervescent. Medium sweetness. Appley notes, some malic sourness
initially. Woody notes. Lingering apple aftertaste. Aroma is a woody
apple aroma, some aldehydes. Clear.
Rating: 8/10
Cider Jack Hard Cider, 6% alcohol by volume, 12 fl. oz. bottle, "Serve Ice
Cold", Bottled by: The American Hard Cider Company, Pond Lane, Middlebury
VT 05753, Ingredients: "American and French Hard Cider, Sugar, Sulphur
Dioxide and Sodium Benzoate (to preserve freshness), lightly carbonated",
label shows a wood carving of an angular man flexing his bicep with an
apple on top in brown, black and white.
Tasting notes: Medium golden color, clear. Lightly carbonated. Medium low
apple aroma. Medium low apple flavor. Some woodiness. Little to no wine
character. Low acidity, including malic. Medium body. Medium low sweetness,
fairly dry. Overall: not winey, but not very appley either. Easy drinking
-- might be a session cider if it weren't for the 6% alcohol content. Seems
more acidic as it warms up.
Rating: 7.5/10
Herout Fils French Sparkling Cider, "This Naturally Fermented Sparkling Apple
Cider is made from the Finest, Carefully Selected French Apples from
Normandy, France. The Apples are harvested from biologically and ecologically
Natural Orchards to insure the Purest and Freshest Cider. Serve Well
Chilled!", selected by Herout Fils (Auvers, La Manche), Product of France,
Sole Importer: whyte & whyte importers, Ltd., Elk Grove Village, Illinois,
750 ml, 2.2% alcohol by volume, "Old World, traditional cider produced
following the historic method of production. The natural, refreshing,
balanced flavor of this cider compliments any occasion.", front label is
entirely red and black text on an off-white background, back label is the
same but also contains a gray-tone etching of an apple press.
Tasting notes: Assertive apple character, but not overdone. Medium sweet,
with a dryish finish. Very effervescent. Deep golden color, clear. Low
alcohol level. Slight woodiness. Slight malic acidity. Very pleasant.
Rating: 8.5/10
George Hornsby's Pubdrafts Draft Cider, made by Ernest & Julio Gallo
Winery, Modesto, CA, 6.4 %/v, 180 calories/12 oz., "contains zero (0)%
juice", "Crafted with care to produce a unique draft cider in the best
tradition of the finest European pubs", ingredients: "cider, natural
flavors, less than one percent of caramel color, carbon dioxide, citric
acid, potassium sorbate to protect flavor, sulfiting agents", label is a
gold shield on a blue background with a rhinoceros head on the shield.
Tasting notes: Tastes somewhat thin and watery. Some apple notes, but weak.
Carbonation level is low. Light golden color. Medium sweetness. Has a
background taste like a light, slightly acidic wine. Little aftertaste.
Rating: 6/10 (Reduce this?)
George Hornsby's Pubdrafts Dark and Dry Cider, made by Ernest & Julio Gallo
Winery, Modesto, CA, 6 %/v, 170 calories/12 oz., "This carefully crafted,
full-bodied, dark and dry cider has a deep rich color, dry taste, and a
smooth finish", ingredients: "cider, water, natural flavors, less than one
percent of caramel color, carbon dioxide, citric acid, potassium sorbate
to protect flavor, sulfiting agents", label is a red-orange shield
on a black background with a rhinoceros head on the shield.
Tasting notes: none.
Wild Country Normandy Hard Cider, Cidre Normand, produced by C.C.L.F. -
Livarot, France, imported by Fischer Beverage International, 3 %/v, 146
calories/11.2 oz., "made from fermented apple juice", label shows a boar's
head coming out of a French horn, with green and white lettering on a reddish
pink background (rather gaudy).
Tasting notes: Apple comes through strongly. Slight malic acid sour notes.
Some woody notes. Medium to below medium body. Alcohol level is low.
Carbonation level is medium low. Medium to above medium sweetness. Deep
golden color. Lingering apple aftertaste, like you just finished eating an
apple.
Rating: 8.5/10
(Need to re-taste Woodchuck's two ciders side by side. Maybe we should have
a tasting of as many ciders as possible to get a better comparison.)
Woodchuck Draft Cider, Amber, Naturally Fermented Draft Cider in a Bottle, Cold
Filtered, Made in the Green Mountains for Over 400 Years, produced by Joseph
Cerniglia Winery, Cavendish, Vermont, 5%/v, 12 oz. bottle, ingredients:
"fermented apple juice, sugar, champagne yeast, sulfites and sorbate to
protect flavor, lightly carbonated", label shows a woodchuck eating an apple,
surrounded by an oval green logo on a red background.
Tasting notes: Color is golden. Very clear. Carbonation level is low. Fairly
dry (medium low sweetness). Has a distinct sourness that is almost puckering.
Good apple character. Aroma has apple and slight woody notes. Lingering malic
acid sourness.
Rating: 7.5/10
Woodchuck Draft Cider, Dark & Dry, Naturally Fermented Draft Cider in a Bottle,
Cold Filtered, Made in the Green Mountains for Over 400 Years, produced by
Joseph Cerniglia Winery, Cavendish, Vermont, 5%/v, 12 oz. bottle,
ingredients: "fermented apple juice, caramelized sugar, champagne yeast,
sulfites and sorbate to protect flavor, lightly carbonated", label shows a
woodchuck eating an apple, surrounded by an oval red logo on a brown
background.
Tasting notes: Color is dark amber to copper. Very clear. Carbonation level
is low. Fairly dry (medium low sweetness), but has significant body and
apple character that gives a nice balance. Some sour notes from malic acid,
with a lingering apple sour finish. Good apple presence.
Rating: 9/10 (a real toss-up with Normandy's...)
Wyder's Dry Draft Cider, Naturally Fermented Hard Cider, produced by Wyder's
Beverages Canada, Ltd., Calgary, Alberta, Canada, Golden State Vintners,
Cutler CA, 5%/v, 652 ml/22 fl. oz. bottle, ingredients: "cider stock,
carbonated water, apple concentrate with natural flavors, citric acid,
potassium sorbate & sulfur dioxide", label has a red banner at the top
enscribed with "Wyder's" and a drawing of two apples.
Tasting notes: Light straw color, very clear. No head or apparent bubbles,
but medium conditioning. Alcohol not prominent in palate. Light to medium
body. Medium dry, medium malic acid notes. Crisp finish. Sourness somewhat
lingering. Some woodiness/apple character in the aroma. A little watery,
light in body. Very drinkable.
Rating: 7/10
Wyder's Dry Pear Cider, Naturally Fermented Hard Cider, produced by Wyder's
Premium Apple Cider Company Ltd., Delta, B.C., 4%/v, 652 ml/22 fl. oz.
bottle, ingredients: "cider stock, carbonated water, pear concentrate with
natural flavors, citric acid, potassium sorbate & sulfur dioxide", label has
a red banner at the top enscribed with "Wyder's" and a drawing of two pears.
Tasting notes: Color is very light straw, with a hint of green, similar to a
light white wine. Very clear. No head, but medium conditioning. Alcohol level
is low to medium. Medium to medium high body. Medium sweetness. Some acidity
present. Not much aroma, possibly some grassiness. Slight apple taste, maybe
some pear taste if I look hard enough. Very drinkable; goes down easy.
Reminds me of a white wine that is too sweet, but the sourness does tend to
balance the sweetness.
Rating: 6.5/10
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Subject: Degorgement
From: Tim Bray <tbray@mcn.org>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:12:08 -0800
Having read what descriptions I can find of the "degorgement" process
(Methode Champenoise), I am keen to try it on my experimental batch of
cider, which I bottled too soon. Has anyone on the list actually done
this? It sounds incredibly messy. How cold does the ice-brine have to
get, how hard does the cider freeze in the neck of the bottle, does it come
shooting out under the pressure of all that carbonation or do you have to
dig it out, etc. How often do bottles break while doing this?
I bottled before the cider had completely cleared and now have a pretty
thick layer of yeast in the bottles. Opening a bottle causes all that
yeast to rise and make a terrible-looking mess, not to mention the strong
yeast flavor in the cup. The cider has a lot of carbonation - too much,
actually - and so if I lose a little during the degorgement it won't be too
bad. I assume you need to top up with fresh cider, or some fermented
product from a sacrificial bottle, after the degorgement.
So, I would love to hear your experience with this method if you have tried it!
Regards,
Tim Bray
Albion, CA
------------------------------
Subject: Apples for Zone 10?
From: Tim Bray <tbray@mcn.org>
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:46:11 -0800
Well, all the discussion of apples for Zone 4 was interesting, but I have
the opposite problem: my orchard is located about one mile from the beach,
in Mendocino County, California. The climate is transitional between USDA
Zones 9 and 10; we get a few light frosts in December-January each year,
minimum temperature probably about 25 F. But we also get warm spells in
mid-winter, when the daytime temps get over 60 F, and our typical daily
range is from 38 to 58 F. Frost tolerance is not an issue - chill
requirement is! There are no nearby weather stations that have chill hour
accumulation data, so I have to extrapolate from daily temperatures, but I
am guessing that we get between 300 and 500 hours of chill in an average
winter. (This winter? Maybe 200...)
On the other hand, we have long cool summers, and most crops ripen about a
month later here than inland. Winter Banana, for example, ripens late
October to early November; Yellow Bellflower in late November. I think the
neighbor's Gravensteins were ready in early October. In this regard, our
season is more like England than New England.
In all my references on cider apples, there is very little information
regarding chill requirements. Is anybody else growing cider apples in
low-chill climates? Is this a hopeless cause? Should I cancel my order
for Stoke Red, Sweet Coppin, Noel des Champs, Brown's Apple, King
David? Grub out the Kingston Blacks? (OK, just kidding.)
In the absence of any information, I am going ahead with planting a few
trees each of 30 or more varieties, in the hope of stumbling into some that
will do well here. If someone else has already gone through this exercise,
it would be great to hear about it!
Thanks,
Tim Bray
Albion, CA
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Perry
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 09:12:30 -0500
Carolyn Wood <natvwine@cut.net> wrote:
>Subject: Perry
> On another subject, I have obtained scionwood for the following
>perry pears: Hendre Huffcap, Norman Cibrebirne, Butt, Blakeney Red,
>Thorn, Gin, Red Pear, Winnals Longdon, Barnet, Barland, Romania,
>Brandy, Yellow Huffcap, Tayton Squash and Gelbmostler.
> If anyone can kindly lead me in the direction to find out more about
>these varieties, I would be most grateful.
Carolyn, your best source of information, if you can find it, would be
"Perry Pears", by Luckwill and Pollard, University of Bristol, UK, 1963.
The English varieties available from Corvallis are described, but not the
French, German and Romanian. However, this book is sold out but I heard
there were plans to make a reprint. Maybe also you could find a used copy.
Try www.amazon.com.
I was lucky to get my copy some 5 years ago. I guess it was one of the last
copy of the original print. If you wish, you may contact me and I could
rewrite a summary of the descriptions, or make a few photocopies for you.
Claude Jolicoeur, Quebec --- cjoli@mc.ulaval.ca
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #855
*************************
