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Cider Digest #0887
Subject: Cider Digest #887, 22 January 2001
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #887 22 January 2001
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Nurseries (Tim Bray)
Re: Not fermenting to dryness (jafjmw@cableinet.co.uk)
New Orchard (Roy Bailey)
From whence natural yeasts? (Andrew Lea)
effect of pasteurization (mike tomlinson)
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Subject: Nurseries
From: Tim Bray <tbray@mcn.org>
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 22:27:16 -0800
I'm considering a few late additions for my spring planting (spring begins
in January here) and wondered if anyone on the list has experience with
some of the nurseries selling cider apples and other old varieties. I seem
to recall that our esteemed janitor reported a bad experience with
Southmeadow; anyone else have good or bad results to report?
Just to get started, I'll offer good reviews of two nurseries:
Sonoma Antique Apple Nursery - They are great! Very knowledgeable and good
to work with; excellent tree quality. If they had all the varieties I'm
looking for, I wouldn't go anywhere else.
Cummins Nursery - Extremely knowledgeable and helpful; broad selection;
easy to work with. I did my ordering via e-mail. Prices matched tree
size; smaller trees were a good value, as they grew well for me.
If anyone has any experience buying blueberries, I'd be interested in that too.
Thanks!
Tim Bray
Albion, CA
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Subject: Re: Not fermenting to dryness
From: jafjmw@cableinet.co.uk
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 09:27:11 +0000
> Subject: Not fermenting to dryness
> From: David Pickering <davidp@netwit.net.au>
> Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2001 22:38:26 +1100
...
> Whilst talking to a home brewer in Melbourne this afternoon I mentioned
> the difficulty of producing a cider with residual sweetness. He doesn't
> see this as a problem. Simply run a poly tube through your domestic
> microwave, pump (or gravity) the cider through the tube with the
> microwave running and the yeast is de-activated - QED.
> Has anybody tried this technique to know what the effects are on the
> yeast and cider?
If this involves drilling two holes through the microwave oven casing to get the
tube in and out, I think it could be very dangerous. Microwave ovens are safe
because the microwaves are inside an earthed metal box like a Faraday cage.
Although the door is lined with a screen so you can see through it, the holes in
the screen are very small. I suspect that drilling 10 mm holes (for example) to
get tubing through would allow significant microwave leakage, so discuss it with
an expert (probably an electrical engineer specializing in microwave
transmission) before you try this at home!
There is a web page on microwave oven experiments (with disclaimers):
http://www.eskimo.com/~billb/weird/microexp.html
- -- Adam
------------------------------
Subject: New Orchard
From: Roy Bailey <lvcider@westberks.demon.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 18:16:10 +0000
I thought all you good people across the pond (and those this side!) would
like to hear about our new venture at the start of the new year, new century
and new millennium.
When I started making cider commercially in 1996 I went around collecting
apples from within about a 10 mile radius of Newbury - not the delightful town
in Massachusetts, but the one in the west of the Royal County of Berkshire,
where Vodafone Airtouch have their HQ. These apples were cookers and eaters
surplus to householders' and landowners' requirements, but I soon discovered
an old pear tree which made good perry and an apple tree in a garden which
made a good single varietal cider.
I took cuttings from these trees and had them grafted, and started looking for
somewhere to plant them. Last summer I happened to be talking to a local
landowner and discovered that he was diversifying out of agriculture and had a
piece of grassland where he had already put some deciduous trees and was
intending to plant some more. We came to an agreement to establish an orchard
there for my existing trees and more that I shall be acquiring.
On Monday 8 January we had an inauguration ceremony when our Member of
Parliament, David Rendel, planted the first pear tree, and Father Dermot
Tredget of Douai Abbey, near Newbury, planted the first apple tree. The monks
at Douai planted half a dozen cider apple trees about 60 years ago, but no
longer make cider. They kindly let me have the fruit instead, and last autumn
I made 100 gallons of cider entirely from this source. It will be called Abbey
Gold!
After planting each tree, a libation of perry and cider, made from the parent
trees, was poured onto the ground around the relevant tree by myself and my
daughter Alice, who is my partner. After Father Dermot blessed the venture we
held a reception at which our 1999 Royal County cider was served mulled with
spices, and each guest was presented with a commemorative bottle.
At present I am spending several hours each day planting out the trees, which
is pleasant work in the present cold, clear weather. There are about 25 of the
pears and we have room for 30, and there are 10 apples and we have room for
80. So I shall be having some more grafting done at the end of the month. Of
the 80 apple trees approximately half will be of a known cider variety, so I
shall also be buying some year-old Kingston Black trees - arguably the finest
cider apple.
The land is on fairly high ground with an open aspect to the south (our
prevailing wind is south-west), a belt of immature trees to the north and a
hedge to the west. The soil is about a foot of clayey material with a lighter,
sandy marl beneath and a chalk subsoil.
A long-term project at my age, but very exciting!
- --
Roy Bailey - Proprietor, The Lambourn Valley Cider Company
(Real cider from the Royal County)
The Malt House, Great Shefford, HUNGERFORD, Berks RG17 7ED, UK
Tel: 01488 648441 Fax: 08700 522514
URL: http://www.lambournvalleycider.co.uk/
E-mail: info@lambournvalleycider.co.uk
------------------------------
Subject: From whence natural yeasts?
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 22:05:43 +0000
David Matthews said:
> I have read in a number of places, including on the Digest, that natural
> yeasts are thought to find their way into cider from the cidermaking
> equipment. This year I made cider (on a kitchen scale) using brand-new
> equipment from Vigo. Within a couple of days, a good, clean natural
> yeast fermentation had started. I believe that the primary innoculation
> of the juice comes from airbourne yeasts, much in the same way that
> Lambic beers are fermented in Belgium.
>
David is part right but it is also true that there are plenty of yeasts
INSIDE the apples. Apples have lots of friendly air spaces inside them
where yeasts can survive (and is why apples float in water unlike many
fruits!). Years ago my colleagues at Long Ashton showed
typical levels of 10,000 yeast cells per gram of apple (i.e. per ml of
juice) even when extracted under sterile conditions (and some work I did
with a commercial company a few years back confirmed that in an actual
factory). Generally then the inoculation comes from within the apple
itself, especially if it's been stored to 'mature' after picking (in
fact this is believed to be one of a number of reasons why storing fruit
for a month or so after harvest prior to cidermaking became a
traditional practice).
It seems also that the yeasts that survive dessication from year to year
on press cloths and equipment are the Saccharomyces which 'finish' the
fermentation succession, while most of the yeasts inside the fruit are
the Kloeckera which get it off to a rousing start (unless sulphite is
used in which case the Kloeckera are knocked out and the Saccharomyces
take a week or two to multiply up to sufficient levels to get working).
Andrew Lea
- --------------------------------------
Visit the Wittenham Hill Cider Page at
http://www.cider.org.uk OR
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
------------------------------
Subject: effect of pasteurization
From: mike tomlinson <tugger@netreach.net>
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2001 16:49:44 -0500
What are the pro's and con's of using pasteurized cider for making hard
cider? Does the alcohol created kill germs like E coli? does it change
the flavor? Must hard cider be kept cool after fermentation but before
consumption like a good wine or can it be handled like a liquor where
temperature is not such a concern?
Thanks
Mike
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End of Cider Digest #887
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