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Cider Digest #0862
Subject: Cider Digest #862, 25 May 2000
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #862 25 May 2000
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
back to normal digests (Cider Digest)
Honey (Richard Sewards)
Varietals ("Dana H. Myers")
Re honey in cider (Carolyn Wood)
Cider form the Kitchen (Shawn Houser)
Pruning Advice? (Tim Bray)
English vs. Norman (Tim Bray)
Alternative to Pasteurization? ("Roger Flanders")
Bittersweets (Rod.McDonald@facs.gov.au)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: back to normal digests
From: cider@raven.talisman.com (Cider Digest)
Date: 25 May 00 22:27:19 MDT (Thu)
The digest has been delayed a bit (as I'd warned) due to both the janitor
and his usual backup being off in England, diligently researching cider.
That done, the digest will return to its usual unpredictable schedule.
- ---
Cider Digest cider-request@talisman.com
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor Boulder County, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Honey
From: Richard Sewards <rsewards@gnnettest.com>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 11:55:35 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
On 6 May 2000 Michael West <106377.607@compuserve.com> wrote:
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Cider Digest #860, 4 May 2000
> From: Michael West <106377.607@compuserve.com>
> Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 17:00:31 -0400
>
[snip]
> By the way, this year I have started a hive of bees in my orchard, can
> anyone comment on whether the addition of honey, as opposed to plain sugar,
> makes any difference in the long run?
I've been using honey regularly for some years. I find it increases head
retention slightly, smooths some sharp flavours (this depends on the
apples you use). With a good quality light honey some nice and subtle
additional flavours.
- --
Richard Sewards richard.sewards@gnnettest.com
GN Nettest (Datacom Division) (905) 948-7543
55 Renfrew Drive, (905) 475-6524 (fax)
Markham, ON, CANADA, L3R 8H3 =* 121245
------------------------------
Subject: Varietals
From: "Dana H. Myers" <dana.myers@sun.com>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 09:22:31 -0700
On 4 May 2000, Bill Rhyne wrote:
> RE: Single variety ciders, tree pruning
...
> Because we are in the middle
> of wine country, people ask us if we are headed towards a single variety
> type (as in Merlot, Chardonnay type of labeling) and so far, we have no
> candidates or interest in this idea.
Interestingly enough, there's a pretty significant movement among the California
wine industry to produce blends. After spending a lot of energy developing a
whole notion of varietal labeling and marketing, perhaps to distinguish the
'upstart' CA wines from existing French wines, it looks like we're going
full-circle and understanding why the French produce blends. California
vintners now use the term 'meritage' to describe French-style blends, and
I believe the Meritage direction is yielding some very interesting wines (to
name a few, Franciscan Magnificat, BV Tapestry, Joseph Phelps Insignia,
Opus One, Lyeth, Ravenswood Pickberry Vineyard) as well as some very
interesting Rhone-clones (Io).
Sometime for giggles, try tasting a winery's Cabernet Sauvignon next to their
Red Meritage; at Franciscan, I did exactly this, and it was quite
interesting indeed.
All of this digression is to say: don't fret about blending. Next time someone
asks, you can talk about a Continental approach and so on... :-)
I'll have to visit next time I'm in the area.
Dana
dana.myers@sun.com
------------------------------
Subject: Re honey in cider
From: Carolyn Wood <natvwine@cut.net>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 18:31:52 +0000
>By the way, this year I have started a hive of bees in my orchard, can
>anyone comment on whether the addition of honey, as opposed to plain
>sugar, makes any difference in the long run?
Mike West
Cambridge
Honey can make a big difference, especially if it's good honey, as
yours will no doubt be. We blend honey with many fruits and we and our
customers notice a much improved bouquet. I think the essence of the
honey "carries" or "projects" the other aromas to the nose.
The honey is a more complex substance than sucrose and so will take
longer to mature.
Contrary to conventional wisdom, we do not heat our honey or use
sulfites and haven't failed yet to make a great product. We think heat
compromises much of the aromatic components and use as natural of a
product as possible.
------------------------------
Subject: Cider form the Kitchen
From: Shawn571@webtv.net (Shawn Houser)
Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 01:05:03 -0400 (EDT)
I am a Chef at a local country Inn, and have recently been exparimenting
with the flavors extracted from my herbal, fruity, and spiced ciders and
meads. I thought perhaps we could keep May in business, instead of the
projected down time for your digest. If members are willing I could
answer questions on techniques of brewing cider, give my own recipes for
my consumption and cooking pleasures.
My passion for food has driven me to search out many different
combinations of tastes and flavors. In which I have recently combined
both (my) business and pleasure to come up with some really exotic, and
(home) out of the cupboard , grab and brew tastes & ideas.
sincerely,
Chef Houser
------------------------------
Subject: Pruning Advice?
From: Tim Bray <tbray@mcn.org>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:30:01 -0700
Terry Bradshaw's advice is good. I would emphasize that it is probably too
late to safely prune a pear tree now, because of the danger of fireblight,
depending on where you are and your local climate. Pears are very
susceptible to this deadly disease and pruning in the spring can spread the
infection. Wait until late fall or winter - January is considered the
ideal pruning month in many areas. If the tree is nicely shaped and not
too dense, you may not need to do much.
If it has watersprouts (vertical shoots arising from branches), don't prune
them, snap them off. Pruning them will cause a bazillion more to
appear! You can do the same thing with suckers around the base - just
snap them off.
Hope this helps,
Tim
------------------------------
Subject: English vs. Norman
From: Tim Bray <tbray@mcn.org>
Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 23:13:12 -0700
>I was interested in the opinions of the English v Norman "styles". The 3
>brands I have noticed worthy of a mention recently in the Digest have been
>Dry Blackthorn, Strongbow and Woodbecker. Now these brands are (probably)
>the 3 largest volume-produced ciders in the world. They are certainly made
>in England, but by an odd quirk best known to the Bulmers marketing
>department, they are not very "English" in their style. They are designed
>for a global market and thus are bland enough for a wide variety of tastes.
Well, maybe we have a problem of definition... what is an "English"
style? I would certainly have thought that the most popular English cider
was, almost by definition, an English style.
>Perversely, the comment
> >I like medium dry to sweet, lots of apple character, malic and woody
> >notes, golden ciders. I guess that puts me in the Norman style too.
>
>would suggest to me a traditionl English cider, try anything by Westons if
>you can get it.
Never seen it over here (California), will look next time I cross the pond!
>Strangely enough, the Duche' de Longueville ciders are also
>both very good and not very "Norman", as they too have been spruced up for
>a wider audience.
Certainly they have been pasteurized, and probably filtered, but they are
closer to what I remember having in Normandy than anything else I've had here.
>I fear that any bottled cider sold into an international
>market will have to meet such stringent health guidelines and be produced
>in such quantity that many regional differences will be lost.
I'm with you there. Alas, alackaday.
>By the way, this year I have started a hive of bees in my orchard, can
>anyone comment on whether the addition of honey, as opposed to plain sugar,
>makes any difference in the long run?
Well, technically speaking it will make a "cyser" rather than a
"cider." Honey being rather different from "plain" sugar, it will make a
difference; honey has an assortment of sugars in it, some of which are not
particularly fermentable, and of course has its own flavor and aroma, some
of which will survive fermentation. You can get lots more information from
the Mead-Lovers Digest, courtesy of our beloved Dick Dunn.
"Cider and Juice Apples: Growing and Processing" by RR Williams is an
>excellent reference, it has an acknowledgement to Andrew Lea, so must be
>good!
Is this a technical publication? How does one obtain this reference? I
tried several book searches but came up empty.
Thanks,
Tim Bray
Albion, CA
------------------------------
Subject: Alternative to Pasteurization?
From: "Roger Flanders" <flanders@probe.net>
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 09:01:24 -0500
Under "Developments to Watch" on page 107 of the May 29, 2000,
"Business Week," is a brief article about how University of Florida
researchers are working on an alternative to pasteurization for
orange, APPLE and pineapple juice. If their method proves practical
(read: economical), it sounds promising for those of us who have
trouble finding unpasteurized apple juices and sweet ciders for
fermenting.
The researchers mixed orange juice "with highly pressurized carbon
dioxide." This mix was then "shunted" through a tube, where, upon
exiting, the juice is "separated from the gas, killing any nasty
microorganisms, such as salmonella or E. coli." According to
"Business Week," the resulting juice "is indistinguishable from
fresh-squeezed" and without the "slightly-cooked" flavor resulting
from pasteurization.
Is there anyone on the list acquainted with the research who could
expand on this?
- --Rog Flanders
------------------------------
Subject: Bittersweets
From: Rod.McDonald@facs.gov.au
Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 10:15:06 +1000
Andrew Lea said (a few digests ago) that no-one in their right mind would
ferment single variety bittersweet ciders. I wonder then how is it that BTP
Barker (from Long Ashton) in his 'Cider Apple Production' (1937) describes the
vintage qualities of 'Yarlington Mill Jersey' as "Cider of good body, aroma and
flavour usually. A superior all-round variety" (p. 73)?
Maybe there is a mid-point between the two perspectives that can be teased out?
P'raps Barker's use of the word 'usually' is the key?
Rod
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #862
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