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Cider Digest #0806
Subject: Cider Digest #806, 23 April 1999
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #806 23 April 1999
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
re: Freezing must (Dick Dunn)
Widmer's cider (Brian Black)
Cider changes in time (Andrew Lea)
Cider changes in time (Andrew Lea)
Freezing must (Andrew Lea)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: re: Freezing must
From: rcd@raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: 21 Apr 99 00:45:48 MDT (Wed)
Magunda@aol.com asked:
> Has anyone tried freezing must from early fruiting apples to mix with the
> must from apples that fruit a couple of months later?...[etc]...
I haven't tried that, but let me suggest a different approach: Ferment
your earlier apples and hold the cider (in a carboy or whatever) until you
have your later apples. If it matters to you to ferment with natural
yeasts, this solves the problem that the freezing would kill the yeasts.
This method also gives you a chance to blend ciders rather than blending
juices, which may make it easier to decide on the blend you want since
you're not trying to extrapolate from the taste of a juice to the taste of
the cider it will produce.
I've used this approach with crab-apples (which tend to be ready in mid-
summer) when I've wanted the tannin and acid from the crabs to modify the
character of an otherwise-wanting cider made mostly from dessert apples.
In fact, I have a small number of bottles of crab-apple cider from '96
which I will still simply open and add to a batch when I'm ready to bottle
it. It's a goofy "cuvee" but it works.
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
...Lately it occurs to me what a long, strange trip it's been.
------------------------------
Subject: Widmer's cider
From: Brian Black <b.black@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 07:33:09 -0700
This group has commented on other brands in the past, and I would be
interested in hearing this group's opinion on Widmer's cider, which I
have not yet tried (nor do I know the brand name). Does it sell well in
your area?
Brian Black
Black & Fagan Cider Co.
------------------------------
Subject: Cider changes in time
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@csi.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:46:50 +0100
Gabi said:
We always cover the cider with CO2 as soon as we open the
> barrel. But nonetheless the cider starts changing. A week later it has
> got a kind of sharpness it hasn't a few days ago. And from week to
> week it gets sharper and rougher.
Two possibilities here;
1. A natural malo-lactic bacterial fermentation, which is normally to
be welcomed since it smoothes the flavour and actually reduces the
acidity. Often you can see no cloudiness because the bacteria are so
small. But it does produce CO2 hence perhaps an illusion (?) of
increased acidity. Have you actually measured this by titration (degas
first!)
2. Long-term storage of cider in aluminium is NOT recommended. This
metal can catalyse undesirable flavour changes. A big problem in the UK
industry is just this, if the can lacquer has been broached and true
metal contact with the cider is set up. Use stainless steel or plastic
instead. You may get away with aluminium and beer because the pH is so
much higher, but aluminium and cider are not good friends.
Andrew Lea, nr Oxford, UK
- --------------------------------------
Visit the Wittenham Hill Cider Page at
http://www.oxfordonline.co.uk/cider OR
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
------------------------------
Subject: Cider changes in time
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@csi.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 20:46:50 +0100
Gabi said:
We always cover the cider with CO2 as soon as we open the
> barrel. But nonetheless the cider starts changing. A week later it has
> got a kind of sharpness it hasn't a few days ago. And from week to
> week it gets sharper and rougher.
Two possibilities here;
1. A natural malo-lactic bacterial fermentation, which is normally to
be welcomed since it smoothes the flavour and actually reduces the
acidity. Often you can see no cloudiness because the bacteria are so
small. But it does produce CO2 hence perhaps an illusion (?) of
increased acidity. Have you actually measured this by titration (degas
first!)
2. Long-term storage of cider in aluminium is NOT recommended. This
metal can catalyse undesirable flavour changes. A big problem in the UK
industry is just this, if the can lacquer has been broached and true
metal contact with the cider is set up. Use stainless steel or plastic
instead. You may get away with aluminium and beer because the pH is so
much higher, but aluminium and cider are not good friends.
Andrew Lea, nr Oxford, UK
- --------------------------------------
Visit the Wittenham Hill CiX-Mozilla-Status: 0009w.oxfordonline.co.uk/cider OR
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
------------------------------
Subject: Freezing must
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@csi.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 21:47:28 +0100
Don't fully know the answer from personal experience but I see no reason
why not. Frozen grape juice (sussmost) is widely used in UK and Germany
for sweetening wines without problem, so fermentation should be OK too
so long as a yeast is added (the wild yeasts may not take kindly to
freezing and thawing). This HAS to be a much better bet than freezing
the apples, which in my experience is a complete disaster for a whole
host of physical and biochemical reasons which I shan't go into here!
Andrew Lea, nr Oxford, UK
- --------------------------------------
Visit the Wittenham Hill Cider Page at
http://www.oxfordonline.co.uk/cider OR
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #806
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