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Cider Digest #0847
Subject: Cider Digest #847, 9 February 2000
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #847 9 February 2000
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Acidity (Claude Jolicoeur)
cider and wine ph (Carolyn Wood)
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Subject: Acidity
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 11:36:14 -0500
A 17:19 00.01.29 MST, Dave Burley wrote in Cider Digest #846 :
>
>Anyway, TA is a good start. What I don't know is if this TA is that of the
>acid or is using sulfuric acid as the base. I assume it is tartaric acid in
>wines as the standard, as this is a modern concept.
Some time ago, I investigated on the different ways to express titrable
acidity.
Acidity kits sold in wine supply stores in North America use a N/5 solution
of Sodium Hydroxide for titration. If you use 1 ml of this solution to
neutralize a sample of 1.5 ml of apple juice (or 10 ml in a sample of 15
ml), then the titrable acidity can be expressed as:
10 g of tartric acid / litre or 1 % acidity
6.5 g of sulfuric acid / litre (0,65 %)
8.9 g of malic acid / litre (0,89 %)
Tartaric acid is the standard american scale for wine. In France, they
usually use the sulfuric acid scale. The malic acid scale is sometimes used
for apple juice.
Note: Wine testing kits normally provide a syringe to measure a sample of
15 ml of juice and also to measure the quantity of sodium hydroxide
solution, which can be around 10 ml per test. If you buy yourself at a
drugstore a smaller syringe - I use a precision 1 ml syringe that is
normally used for insulin - you can use 10 times less solution per test and
still have the same precision...
Claude Jolicoeur, Quebec.
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Subject: cider and wine ph
From: Carolyn Wood <natvwine@cut.net>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 22:39:36 -0600
Thanks to Dave Burley for some great info. There are, however, some
additional points I have discovered.
A. Different acids taste different. Ciders contain mainly malic with
some citric, and sometimes lactic acids. While malic acid is the one
that most cidermakers will recognize on their palletes, it varies quite
a bit from the taste of citric (more sharp) and even more from lactic
(much less sharp). The acid in wines is tartaric (60-90%) with most of
the remainder being malic with some citric or perhaps succinic, pyruvic
and other minor acids. Almost any fermented beverage will also contain
at least some amount of acetic acid. All these acids taste differently
and the unique combinations of them have a large effect on the flavor
of wines and ciders. In addition to the above is the fact that citric
acids tend to be metabolized by fermentation and thus lost in the must
while lactic, succinic and pyruvic acids are increased to some extent
by the fermentation process.
B. The level of alcohol and residual sugars in the beverage will
greatly change the perception (taste) of the acids present. Generally,
higher alc. and sugar levels compliment higher acid levels. This is why
most wines (11-14% alc) have much more acid than beers or ciders and
why sweet or slightly sweet wines and ciders can and generally do have
more acid than their dry counterparts.
The point of all this to me is that making great cider or wine is
not like making kool-aid and if you really want to become an "expert"
then you must make and taste lots of it over a period of years. I could
think of worse! Bob Sorenson
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End of Cider Digest #847
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