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Cider Digest #0829
Subject: Cider Digest #829, 29 September 1999
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #829 29 September 1999
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
sulfiting (Dick Dunn)
Pasteurization (Steve Butts)
Cider Apples Available (Bruce Dunlop)
cider orchards near Boston (or New England / New York)? (Ethan Adams Goddard)
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Subject: sulfiting
From: rcd@raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: 20 Sep 99 09:32:24 MDT (Mon)
Dave Burley <Dave_Burley@compuserve.com> wrote in the last digest:
[summary of sulfiting procedure deleted]
> Since you are a newbie, don't be misled by some of those around you who do
> not favor this millennia old method ( ppm addtions of sulfur dioxide) of
> making good drink. These people mislead by holding some unfounded belief
> that one should only ferment "naturally"( does that include browning,
> lactobacillus and acetobacter?). They probably do not produce much that
> you would like to drink. At least that has been my experience.
Please, what's with the "attitude" here?
Yes, sulfiting is a well-established standard practice. It's a particu-
larly good idea for "newbies" who may have some flaws in their sanitation
practices. It's pretty much the norm; however, sulfiting is _not_
entirely essential. Good ciders and perries can be made without sulfiting.
Therefore, words like "mislead" and "unfounded", and suggestion that one
likely would find unsulfited perry undrinkable, are out of place. You can
disagree without making pejorative remarks.
When reference is made to "natural" in the context of not sulfiting before
fermentation, what is meant is that the yeasts which occur naturally on the
fruit are being used. This is generally believed to produce a more complex
(and arguably, better) taste...that would be an interesting discussion,
though. If you're trying to do this, you can't sulfite. (Actually, Andrew
Lea commented to me that you _can_ sulfite and still use the natural yeast,
but you can only sulfite by a small fraction of the usual amount.) You
have to be more careful about sanitation, of course, but it's not that hard.
And if you bottle-condition a sparkling cider, sulfiting at bottling is out.
Yes, acetobacter is a concern, but probably only at pressing time when
there are flies about and everything is exposed. Lactobacillus might or
might not be...some ciders are sharp enough that a malo-lactic fermenta-
tion helps, although I don't know to what extent random airborne lacto-
bacillus does a good job of it. In both cases, it would seem that only
initial sulfiting should be necessary. I've even heard of an approach (and
I believe this was at Burrowhill, which is a respectable UK cidermaker) of
using sulfite solution to clean the vessels and equipment (with no rinse
after), but not actually sulfiting the must at all.
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
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Subject: Pasteurization
From: Steve Butts <stephen.j.butts@lawrence.edu>
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:42:33 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
A Gratuitous but Passionate Comment on Pasteurization:
I can well understand why a commercial cider producer may be required,
either by law or by marketing considerations, to sterilize his product.
But I cannot see why an individual producing for his or her own
consumption would even consider it except in very special circumstances.
I've kept my own cider for as long as three or four years in a basement
that can get up to 80 degrees in the summer with absolutely no problem.
In fact, I try NOT to drink any for at least 9 months after bottling,
as the taste (as with wine) considerably improves during that time. To
be sure, the taste begins to fade after a couple of years, and I don't
recommend four years of storage as a standard procedure. But gee whiz,
why take a wonderful, fresh-tasting beverage and make it taste like
everything else in the supermarket unless you have to? Would you cook
a '70 Romanee Conti or a Lafitte? If you really must, leave a few
bottles out of the bath and see how they fare over time.
- ----------------------
Steve Butts, Lawrence University
stephen.j.butts@lawrence.edu
____________________________________________________________
A person can NEVER have too many clamps.
____________________________________________________________
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Subject: Cider Apples Available
From: Bruce Dunlop <bdunlop@rockisland.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:08:37 -0700
For those of you in the Seattle area their is a limited quantity of true
cider apples available from the WSU Mount Vernon Field Station. These
apples have been used by local cider makers in past years as part of the
informal research effort to learn more about growing and using apples for
cider. They are available for a nominal donation to the station to help
cover the costs of caring for the trees. Varieties available are: Taylor's,
Brown Snout, Yarlington Mill, Vilberie and Muscadet de Dieppe.
There is a harvest day and open house at the field station October 9th
sponsered by the Western Washington Tree Fruit Research Foundation. This
will include speakers, fruit tasting, budwood exchange, and harvesting. If
you are interested in obtaining some of the cider apples please contact me
by e-mail and plan to attend the Harvest Day and help with the harvest. If
you cannot make the harvest let me know and we can work out a way to get
the apples to you.
Bruce Dunlop
Lopez Island Farm
193 Cross Rd
Lopez Island, WA 98261
360-468-4620
------------------------------
Subject: cider orchards near Boston (or New England / New York)?
From: Ethan Adams Goddard <goddard@eps.harvard.edu>
Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:48:13 -0500
Hi Ciderites,
anyone have any suggestions on where I can find unpastuerized cider of good
quality and mix for fermenting? The closer to the N. Shore of
Massachusetts the better but I'm willing to drive a long way for the good
stuff.
Cheers,
Ethan
*****************************************************************
Ethan Adams Goddard Laboratory for Geochemical Oceanography
Harvard University Department of Earth & Planetary
Sciences
Hoffman Lab - 20 Oxford Street Cambridge, Massachussetts 02138
617-496-1725 office 617-496-4387 fax
617-495-9977 lab goddard@eps.harvard.edu
*****************************************************************
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End of Cider Digest #829
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