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Cider Digest #0865
Subject: Cider Digest #865, 11 June 2000
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #865 11 June 2000
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Barker Reference to vintage quality (Rod.McDonald@facs.gov.au)
Cider and Blends (ThompsonG@DFO-MPO.GC.CA)
shelf life of cider (Chuck)
Single varietals vs Blends ("David Matthews")
Re: Request for advice for new orchard plantings (Rick Stockdale)
Blending again! (Andrew Lea)
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Subject: Barker Reference to vintage quality
From: Rod.McDonald@facs.gov.au
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:53:54 +1000
The full Barker reference that I mentioned a couple of digests back is:
BTP Barker, Cider Apple Production, Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries
Bulletin number 104, HMSO, London, 1937. It runs to 75 pages.
I have re-read it and on pp. 7-8 Barker seems to refer to 'vintage quality' as a
quality an apple may possess that shows that it is suitable for cider, as
opposed to it having a 'culinary quality' or an 'eating quality'. A very generic
use of the term 'vintage'.
It strikes me that having this discussion about single variety ciders just prior
to the great concatenation of cider aficionadoes on May 19 has been very useful.
I wonder would Dick, Andrew, Roy et. al. have had such a fruitful occasion if
they hadn't had a lot of thirsty digesters exploring the finer points of single
variety ciders just prior. it also strikes me that the cider digest is now
scaling new heights of discussion about cider. Understanding the finer points of
different apple varieties (notwithstanding the fact that these varieties aren't
all that available for most of us) and the blending thereof is somewhat more
advanced than the basic recipe stuff that we often discuss. I do hope this level
of detail isn't frightening off the newer comers - if so they should not be
afraid to say so. Striking the balance is probably the hardest bit.
Well done everyone
Rod
------------------------------
Subject: Cider and Blends
From: ThompsonG@DFO-MPO.GC.CA
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 07:54:15 -0400
Hello
While we on the "blends and flavour" thread I though I add my two cents. I
am home cider maker who. From all reports makes very good cider, I am in the
fruit/wine belt of Ontario and along with an abundance of very inexpensive
fresh apple juice, when in season I have access to cherries, strawberries,
raspberries, plums, peaches, pears, an assortment of melons, wild and
domestic grapes.
I have been getting amazing ciders, by blending fruit juices and
apple juice at a ratio of about 1 to 4, fruit to apple juice. I adjust the
yeast variety to compensate for the acidity of juice. I extract the juice
from the soft fruit with a steam extractor that sits on top of my kitchen
stove, it's a simple device made op of three parts, But basically it a
basket in a large pot, that sits on a third pot. Water is boiled in the
bottom pot the stream rises and extracts the juice from the fruit and the
liquid is drained off with a little valve. The extractor is a common
European product and they can be purchase from Lee Valley in North America.
The juice extracted is very hot from the stream and as such sterile, I add
this once it has cooled to the apple juice and then cast the yeast. So far I
have not had a wild yeast problem.
I just though I pass this information along in case anybody wanted
to experiment with a small batch or two.
The apple/fruit blend all have a distinct cider taste and feel with
heavy tones of the fruit, They also have great colour so they look as good
in the glass as they taste.
P.S. only my best friends get my cider the rest get beer.
Geof Thompson B. Sc.
Data Management Engineer
Canadian Hydrographic Service
Central and Arctic Region
867 Lakeshore Road
Burlington, Ontario
Canada. L7R 4A6
Phone (905) 336-4698
Fax (905) 336-4698
E-mail Thompsong@dfo-mpo.gc.ca
------------------------------
Subject: shelf life of cider
From: Chuck <meadmakr@enteract.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 13:39:44 -0500 (CDT)
Wout Klingens and I were insulting each other across the big water when
I mentioned that I still had a corney keg of naturally fermented and
carbonated cider from last Fall that I hadn't tapped into yet.
Wout questioned if it would still be good after a year in the keg. I
blithely said that cider would keep for several years. I also remember
reading, on this digest and in others, that sometimes cider isn't even
*ready* to drink until it has aged for a year or two.
Now I'm fully confident that this kegged cider is fine and may have even
improved some from it's rest in the keg. But, what say ye all? Anyone
have any definitive answers on the shelf life of cider, especialy
naturally fermented, naturally carbonated, unfiltered and unfined?
TIA,
Chuck Wettergreen
meadmakr@enteract.com
Geneva, IL
------------------------------
Subject: Single varietals vs Blends
From: "David Matthews" <1bethan@talk21.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 11:45:22 +0100
Thankyou to Dick Dunn for replying to my comments, and I must say that I
agree with most of what he has to say! Just a few things that I want to
clear up:
I think that blended ciders are better than single varietals, more
balanced and more complex. My favourite Kevin Minchew cider was a blend
of all the varieties growing in his orchard.
BUT, this does not alter the fact that single varietals are definately
worth producing. People like them. Denis Gwatkin's Yarlington Mill won
the Silver Medal last week (for the second year running) at CAMRA`s
National Cider Awards. They do create interest amongst consumers, the
huge range of flavours and colours is a big plus point, and they do
educate customers allowing them to identify the components of a blend
and therefore enjoy and appreciate the blend to a greater extent.
The answer, I have always maintained, is for a cider maker to market
both blends and the single varietals from which they are made. Let the
customers decide! I think you will find that both will sell.
Dick says that he wished I could have tasted Kevin Minchew's Foxwhelp.
Well, each year I work for Kevin for one day, and he pays me in juice.
Last autumn part of that juice payment was Foxwhelp, because I'm a
confirmed Foxwhelp fan. My bottle-fermented Foxwhelp has just finished
maturing, and what a drink! Really lemony/grapefruity acidic, totally
unbalanced, but absolutely superb!!!
All the best,
Dave Matthews
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Request for advice for new orchard plantings
From: Rick Stockdale <ricks@rok.com.au>
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 20:01:03 +1000
My wife and I have a small farm (8acres) in West Gippsland
near Warragul in Victoria Australia. We are fairly new to cider
but have decided to plant a small orchard of about 100 trees.
We have been offered the following varieties of trees from
various sources and would welcome any advice/comments on
a. Planting ratios between the varieties.
b. If any of the listed varieties are NOT worthwhile growing.
c. Other varieties to search out.
Kingston Black - any quantity
Bulmers Norman - any quantity
Yarlington Mill - any quantity
Brown Snout - small quantity
Dabnett - small quantity
Improved Foxwhelp - small quantity
Frequin Rouge Amer - small quantity
Michelin - small quantity
Golden Harvey - small quantity
Sweet Coppin - small quantity
Our plan is to have a small farm gate cidery established
in the next 5-6 years
There are quite a few eating and dessert apple orchards
in the districts surrounding us so we thought to grow only
specialist cider vatieties and buy the more readily available
varieties as we need them from these orchards.
Thanking you in advance
Rick and Marie
------------------------------
Subject: Blending again!
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 12:17:37 +0100
The following observations by Professor Barker on single varieties and
blending were published in the LARS report for 1903-1910:
"The first points to require consideration are the kind of fruit
utilised and the influence of the individual varieties on the character
of the cider produced...... The separation of the varieties into three
classes, the "sharps", the "sweets" and the "bittersweets", has been
recognised, the division depending upon the degrees of sourness and
astringency of the fruit.
As a result of the examination of a large number of kinds it is possible
to support this classification by a chemical standard, apples containing
normally more than 0.45% of malic acid being placed in the "sharp"
class, those with normally less than 0.45% of malic acid and 0.2% of
tannin in the "sweet" class, and those with normally less than 0.45% of
malic acid but more than 0.2% of tannin in the "bittersweet" class. The
limits proposed have been found to answer very well for general
purposes; although, as with all classifications by arbitrary limits,
there are certain border-line varieties about which there is some doubt
as to the proper class in which they should be included.....
In estimating the relative merits of individual varieties due regard
must, of course, be paid to the type of apple under consideration.
For example, a variety belonging to the sharp class cannot properly
be compared with others belonging to the "sweet" or "bittersweet"
classes, and can only be judged by standards afforded by
other "sharp" apples; and the same rule holds good also for
members of the other two classes. Thus the value of Kingston Black as
compared with Strawberry Norman or Sweet Alford, cannot fairly
be reckoned; but it can be placed in comparison with varieties
of similar composition, such as Cowarne Red and Skyrme's Kernel.
The investigation of separate varieties in this manner has established
the fact that as a rule better results can be obtained by
blending than by the use of varieties separately. This point will be
readily understood when it is considered that the limits of composition
within which nearly all ciders which are well-balanced in
flavour fall, are 0.35 - 0.7 per cent of malic acid, and 0.1 - 0.3 per
cent of tannin. If these figures are compared with those referred to
above in connection with the variations in composition of different
varieties, it will be found that most varieties fall without those
limits.
It is a comparatively simple matter to bring the juice of the mixture
within the limits stated by blending in suitable proportions members of
the three classes of fruit. In spite, however, of these facts it is
remarkable how large a number of the single-variety ciders can, with
care in the management of the fermentation, be made
palatable to drink unblended. This can be accomplished by
regulating the amount of the sugar retained in the cider by checking
fermentation at a suitable point. As a general rule, the higher the
amount of malic acid or tannin in the cider the more sugar is required
to mask or counteract the flavour of those constituents. In some
instances it is found also that, although the composition of such
ciders does not fall within the limits just stated, it is preferable
not to blend since they possess certain desirable features of
flavour which are overwhelmed or negatived by blending.
Stated generally, the characteristics of the ciders produced from
the three classes of fruit - except in the relatively few cases of
varieties which fall within the desired limits of composition - are as
follows : sharp varieties yield ciders generally deficient in body
and colour, and too brisk; sweet varieties, ciders generally well
coloured and, frequently of good body, but more or less insipid; and
bittersweet varieties, ciders usually of good colour and body, but
lacking briskness and generally more or less too astringent."
Andrew
- --------------------------------------
Visit the Wittenham Hill Cider Page at
http://www.cider.org.uk OR
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
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End of Cider Digest #865
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