Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #0864
Subject: Cider Digest #864, 31 May 2000
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #864 31 May 2000
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: "varietals" and blends (Roy Bailey)
Country Inn. . . (NeophyteSG@aol.com)
Re: Blending (William J. Rhyne)
varietal labeling (Carolyn Wood)
("Julian Temperley")
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
When subscribing, please include your name and a good address in the
message body unless you're sure your mailer generates them.
Archives of the Digest are available for anonymous FTP at
ftp://ftp.stanford.edu/pub/clubs/homebrew/cider.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: "varietals" and blends
From: Roy Bailey <lvcider@westberks.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 10:22:44 +0100
In message , Dick Dunn <rcd@raven.talisman.com> writes
[snipped]
>
>Kevin kindly opened and poured a rather surprising number of ciders and
>perries for us. All were good, sound, well-made, clean, and certainly had
>no technical flaws. With the number of ciders that Kevin had, *all* of
>them well-made, it's clear that he's got consistency.
>
>Yet I'm going to have to come down on Andrew's side on the point of single
>varietals: with certain exceptions, they're just not balanced. They are
>good, drinkable ciders, and I would seek them out, but there's something
>missing. We tasted Dabinett and Yarlington Mill (both bittersweets). At
>least Andrew, Diane, Charlie, and I found them coming up short because they
>lacked enough acid to balance the taste. And as we discussed them, we
>realized that if you were having them with food, the lack of acid would be
>even more noticeable since you often count on sharpness in the drink as a
>foil to the richness of food. BTW, I'm only not speaking for Roy because
>I don't recall his comments. But I'm pretty sure he agreed with us on the
>Dabinett and YM because he tends to like more acidic ciders than the rest
>of us. (At least that's what I think was intended when I was told that
>"Roy likes his tart.")
That remark is open to misinterpretation!
> That is also evident in the style of ciders Roy
>makes.
>
I have to say that I find some of the popular commercial ciders which
sell well and win prizes somewhat bland. But then you and the others did
comment that evening that Royal County, my cider made from a blend of
all types of apples, is better for drinking with a meal. I would agree
with that. Great with bread and cheese!
>On the other side, Kevin's Foxwhelp was startlingly sharp. The amount of
>acid would make you think it might have gone acetic...save that the taste
>was so clean it was obvious that the sharpness was just the acid of the
>apple. (I think it was Andrew who said he'd had some Foxwhelp juice that
>had come in at a whopping 2% acidity.) Even Roy, who as I say tends to
>like sharper ciders, found the Foxwhelp to be a bit over the top.
No, I loved it! (Well perhaps just a teeny bit too sharp, but preferable
to the sugary apple juice so widely marketed as 'cider'.)
[snipped]
>As I see it, "single varietal" is not a goal in itself; it's simply appro-
>priate to certain varieties--and _not_ to others.
>
>Back to Dave Matthews:
>> All you Americans, go for it with single varietal bittersweets!...
>
>Why?
>Given what *we* have to work with--which is usually a lack of bitterness
>and sometimes a lack of acid--why shouldn't we either blend or look for
>full bittersharps? There's a reason for the acid in a good cider.
>
Here, here! I have made a single-varietal this year from the fruit of
one tree growing in a garden. It is much less tart than Royal County,
and different from the last pressing from this tree made two years ago,
but it is distinctive and that, to me, makes it worth producing. You
should be prepared to experiment with any apple that looks interesting.
For instance, for several years I have been trying to make a single
varietal from two wild trees growing on a disused railway embankment
near here, but I have finally had to accept that the fruit is just *too*
full of tannin to work - unless, course, one kept the result for several
years, and then who knows. So that particular supply now goes into the
blend.
While I'm writing, I must say that the day spent with Dick, Diane,
Charlie and Andrew was one of the most interesting and enjoyable I have
spent for a long time. This is the second time I have met the Dunns over
here, and I think they should make their visit to Britain an annual
event - and bring Charlie, who has a sense of humour akin to my own!
- --
Roy Bailey - Proprietor
The Lambourn Valley Cider Company
(Real cider from the Royal County)
<lvcider@westberks.demon.co.uk>
------------------------------
Subject: Country Inn. . .
From: NeophyteSG@aol.com
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 00:07:16 EDT
In a message dated 5/27/00 9:29:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
cider-request@talisman.com writes:
> Shawn Houser says in his post, "I am a Chef at a local country Inn, and have
> recently been exparimenting with the flavors extracted from my herbal,
> fruity, and spiced ciders and meads."
> I believe I saw his post in the mead digest & wondered then if my impression
> that he is making these beverages and selling them is correct. If so, is
> the
> ABC squared away?
> Steve
I was under the impression that he was using them in cooking rather than
selling them as alcoholic beverages.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Blending
From: rhyne@wli.net (William J. Rhyne)
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 10:19:20 -0700
Reply to Dana Meyers regarding blending.
>
>Subject: Blends
>From: "Dana H. Myers" <dana.myers@sun.com>
>Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 09:22:31 -0700
Dana said,
>"Interestingly enough, there's a pretty significant movement among the
>California
>wine industry to produce blends. After spending a lot of energy developing a
>whole notion of varietal labeling and marketing, perhaps to distinguish the
>'upstart' CA wines from existing French wines, it looks like we're going
>full-circle and understanding why the French produce blends. California
>vintners now use the term 'meritage' to describe French-style blends, and
>I believe the Meritage direction is yielding some very interesting wines (to
>name a few, Franciscan Magnificat, BV Tapestry, Joseph Phelps Insignia,
>Opus One, Lyeth, Ravenswood Pickberry Vineyard) as well as some very
>interesting Rhone-clones (Io)".
Bill Rhyne's Comments: Dana is correct about the popularity of blending
more than he knows, as our cider maker at Rhyne Cyder is my sister-in-law,
Benedicte Rhyne, and she is also the enologist and assistant winemaker at
Ravenswood Winery. She got her Masters in Enology from the university in
Burgundy. She grew up Provence and did a internship at Petrus where she
studied blending. Back 1990-1991, she came over to work at Ravenswood
Winery and to work on their Bordeaux-style wines, such as Pickberry and
Rancho Salina. A lot of her job is involved with preparing the blends for
bottling. It was her and my wife's idea to ferment the apples from our yard
back in 1994 and that resulted in us pursuing the idea of making a
"French-style" sparkling hard cider made from Sonoma County apples. I think
that we are evolving to our own style though which is a little of what ever
works. She just got back from visiting family in France and she was able to
visit Duche de Longueville factory, as well as some small farmstand
producers. I have had a chance to debrief her yet.
Rhyne Cyder update: We entered our first cider judging this past May at the
West Coast Brewfest 2000 and they gave us a First Place ribbon. They said
that it reminded them of Belgian Lambic ales, some people said it had
"woody notes", all agreed that it was refreshing, especially in the 100
degree heat of Sacramento.
Aloha!
Bill Rhyne
------------------------------
Subject: varietal labeling
From: Carolyn Wood <natvwine@cut.net>
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 00:04:11 +0000
Dick Dunn wrote:
>But does this come down to using a varietal label on the bottle as a
>marketing tool? If so, we've got things backwards--we're letting the
>package dictate the contents. Plus, that misses the question of how
>to impart some distinction to a good blended cider.
Dick, in my humble opinion this is obvious. Every commercial producer
of cider and wine is concerned about selling their product. If you are
selling product in the US, then you are selling to people who clearly
value packaging over contents, for the most part. You can observe this
same taste in popular culture and politics especially.
But your last question remains unanswered; how to impart some
distiction to a good blended cider? Good question.
------------------------------
Subject:
From: "Julian Temperley" <somcb@globalnet.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 22:18:34 +0100
I make cider, and have done for a long time. I can only agree with
Andrew Lea, making cider only from bitter sweets is madness. The art of
cidermaking is the craft of blending apples. We make two single variety
ciders out of Kingston Black and Stoke Red, both bitter sharps. Julian
Temperley www.ciderbrandy.co.uk
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #864
*************************
