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Cider Digest #0764
Subject: Cider Digest #764, 18 September 1998
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #764 18 September 1998
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
digests will pause in early October (Dick Dunn)
Cider Apples, Perry Pears, etc. ("David Johnson")
Cider Apples Available (John Ross)
pollination (RACEGT6@aol.com)
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Subject: digests will pause in early October
From: rcd@raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: 10 Sep 98 08:57:05 MDT (Thu)
Advance warning: The Cider and Mead-Lover's Digests will shut down for a
while in mid-October. They'll definitely be back; it's just a break to
deal with a handful of things here.
During the hiatus, messages and subscription requests will accumulate but
won't be processed.
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
...Mr. Natural says, "Get the right tool for the job."
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Subject: Cider Apples, Perry Pears, etc.
From: "David Johnson" <dmjalj@inwave.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 08:55:29 -0500
Cidermasters,
I finally decided to take advantage of the NAFEX library and got the copy
of Hogg&Bull's "Apple and Pears as Vintage Fruit". It is a fascinating
read. I really enjoyed their commentary on varieties of cider apples and
perry pears. and am still devoring it. It appears that one of the authors
died before the final printing and the other completed the writing. (by the
way, this is only a photocopy). One of the pieces of data is that it shows
the specific gravity of the fruits. An Interesting note is that the
gravities are considerably lower than I would have expected. For example
the quoted SG of Butt pear is 1.042 whil that reported on the Real Cider
and Perry page (taken from Long Ashton) is 1.056. I believe that
LongAshton's data is taken over a 10 year average. Many of the cider apples
had gravities were in the 1.037-1.040 range which is lower than most
dessert apples which also doesn't make sense. Also the "densities" given
for French apples wer a lot higher. Were there differences in techniques
for measuring at that time?
Another interesting section in the book, is that dealing with the
microbiology of cider and perry production. Much of the information was
quoted from a French scientist named Pasteur. " M. Pasteur has succeededin
provingthat on the external surface of all fleshy fruits when they become
ripe, there exists certain minute particles, or germs, whichdevelope into
minute plants and forthwith grow with great rapidity." This was written in
the lat 1800's . Thoses must have been exciting times for those benefitting
fromPasteurs work.
Returning to the measurement of gravity. Medaille d'Or apples were measued
in England as having a SG of 1.045 in England but1.102 in France. Growing
conditions can account for some of these differences, but this seems to be
an awful lot.
As for varieties, the authors seem to be impressedwith the French
Varieties Rouge Bruyere, Bramtot, Medaille dOr, Bedan des-Parts, Michelin,
Argile Gris, De Bouteville, and Frequin Audievre. I am trying to find a
list of recomended pears and apples from English sources, but I am still
reading. I can tell you they wer impressed with Foxwhelp, Kingston
Black(which at that time, "its cultivation was extending throughout the
country"). It also appears that grafting was becoming more practised at
that time. This may account for earlier observations that apples seemed to
be good for cider for awhile and then declined. This is probably due to
genetic drift as a result of using seedling apples.
As far as perry pears go, I notice that he has both Rock and Brown
Huffcap, which thought were the same variety. Both were highly rated.
Blakeny Red made a perry that was described as" rough and course in flavor,
'bominable trash', and fit for only the most ordinary purposes, when
nothing better can be got." Talk about not mincing words! Butt pear was
said to make a rough strong perry and this is the first time I saw a
reference to blending pears for perry and might be used with dessert pears
to pick up the blend. It is one of the few bittersharps available in the
states. Moorecroft and Rock pear seem to be the most highly rated pears for
perry. I have been unable to find either in the US. Moorecroft is available
at the Brogdale Horticultural Trust so if anyone happened to bring some
scions from the UK , I would find them a home. This includes Rock, but I
have no source to direct you to. I haven't gotten a response from Bulmers
which has a orchard division but hasn't responded to my email.
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Apples Available
From: John Ross <johnross@halcyon.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 15:33:16 -0700
Again this year, the experimental cider orchard at Washington State
University's Skagit Valley Research Station has English and French cider
apple varieties available for cider makers.
The orchard has about 30-40 different cider varieties, in varying
quantities. It's also possible to make arrangements to press the apples
into juice.
First preference will go to people in or near western Washington state, but
it might be possible (if quite expensive) to ship to other locations.
Early varieties are ready for picking now. Others will become ripe over the
next month.
If you're interested in obtaining some of this fruit, please contact me via
e-mail.
John Ross
johnross@halcyon.com
------------------------------
Subject: pollination
From: RACEGT6@aol.com
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:53:09 EDT
I lost one of my trees this summer and now have but two - one of which is a
self pollinator. Do I need to get another tree or will the self pollinator
have the right stuff
to give me fruit on both trees next year? TIA, Charlie
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End of Cider Digest #764
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