Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #0754
Subject: Cider Digest #754, 13 July 1998
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #754 13 July 1998
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
No Fiz ("Michael O. Hanson")
Re: No Fizz... ("Pug Bainter")
Re: Secondary smells... ("Pug Bainter")
Re: Cider Digest #753, 5 July 1998 (Keith Dalluhn)
"No Fizz" ()
Resources ("David Johnson")
Carbonation and "off" smell (dennis key)
Re: Cider Digest #753, 5 July 1998 (Brian Black)
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
When subscribing, please include your name and a good address in the
message body unless you're sure your mailer generates them.
Archives of the Digest are available for anonymous FTP at ftp.stanford.edu
in pub/clubs/homebrew/cider.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: No Fiz
From: "Michael O. Hanson" <mhanson@winternet.com>
Date: Sun, 05 Jul 1998 13:01:32 -0700
Did you bottle your cider? If so, did you prime the bottles? Priming
bottles is a brewer's trick for adding carbonation. The yeast ferment the
sugar in the bottles producing carbon dioxide and alcohol. You can add
about three-quarters of a cup of table or corn sugar boiled or pasteurized
in enough water to dissolve it to the cider at bottling time. Make sure
fermentation has ended before adding sugar and bottling. If fermentation
has not ended, your bottles could explode. This may not be the preferred
way of carbonating cider but it works.
I hope this helps,
Mike Hanson
------------------------------
Subject: Re: No Fizz...
From: "Pug Bainter" <pug@pug.net>
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 14:46:36 -0500 (CDT)
Donna Ferron said something that sounded like:
> I made my first batch of cider and while it tastes good, there's no
> carbonation (and there is supposed to be). I let it sit for the amount
> of time called for in the recipe. Does anyone think this is salvageable
> or should I just hope my next batch works out?
Salvageable? I wouldn't consider a good tasting cider to be needing of
salvaging. If you mean the lack of carbonation, I'll go on below.
> It was suggested that maybe if it sits longer, the carbonation might occur.
This certainly is possible. There are several factors that go into
natural carbonation of a beverage.
The initial ones are sugar and yeast. Without them, it won't
carbonate. My ciders tend to ferment out very dry, thus there is no
sugar for the yeast to continue eating after bottled.
Beyond that, alcohol content can play a big role. If you yeast can not
tolerate above it's current alcohol content, it can not continue to
ferment to produce the carbonation desired.
Finally, storage. If the caps/corks are not sealed tightly, the pressure
will not be allowed to build up and the carbonation to form. As well, if
you store it very cold, the yeast will not be active and unable to
continue to produce carbonation.
There are probably other factors, but these are the ones I know of off
the top of my head.
Enjoy it and don't worry!
Ciao,
- --
Phelim "Pug" Gervase | "I want to be called. COTTONTIPS. There is something
Barony of Bryn Gwlad | graceful about that lady. A young woman bursting with
House Flaming Dog | vigor. She blinked at the sudden light. She writes
pug@pug.net | beautiful poems. When ever shall we meet again?"
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Secondary smells...
From: "Pug Bainter" <pug@pug.net>
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 14:58:17 -0500 (CDT)
Keith Barkenhagen said something that sounded like:
> Well, let me preface this with saying that I am a VERY inexperienced cider
> maker (this is my first batch),
Congratulations!
> and I'm not sure this is the place to ask
> this as I may have made a wine instead of a cider for my first try.
I personally do not distinguish between them, while others might.
Personally I don't really know what the difference is, so I can't
distinguish. *grin*
> I tried a bit of it this morning, and although it
> tasted good, it had an off smell in it. It was kind of like a natural
> rubber smell, or a slightly sulphery. It definately came from the cider,
> and was not the air in the secondary fermenter. I was wondering if anyone
> knew if that was normal.
Normal? Well it happens to me over half the time, so it's normal for me.
I make about 50 gallons of cider a year. This side-effect only happens
to me with ciders, and not meads, wines nor beers.
I've never cared enough to figure out what was causing it since it
seemed to have no long term effects. I used to try to actively get rid
of it (with copper or oxygenation), but I finally gave up on all of that
and just wait it out. It usually disappears in a couple weeks to a
month.
Be patient and enjoy!
Ciao,
- --
Phelim "Pug" Gervase | "I want to be called. COTTONTIPS. There is something
Barony of Bryn Gwlad | graceful about that lady. A young woman bursting with
House Flaming Dog | vigor. She blinked at the sudden light. She writes
pug@pug.net | beautiful poems. When ever shall we meet again?"
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #753, 5 July 1998
From: tillek@alphastar.com (Keith Dalluhn)
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 1998 15:25:27 -0500
>Subject: No Fizz
>From: Donna Ferron <FerronD@sanchez.com>
>Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 10:20:28 -0400
>
>Hello ,
>
>I made my first batch of cider and while it tastes good, there's no
>carbonation (and there is supposed to be). I let it sit for the amount
>of time called for in the recipe. Does anyone think this is salvageable
>or should I just hope my next batch works out? It was suggested that
>maybe if it sits longer, the carbonation might occur.
>
>Thanks
>
>D.R. Ferron
We need a little more information on this one. Please explain the process
you used to make the cider. On the information you have given, there is
no mention of bottling. For cider to have carbonation, you have to first
ferment it out, then after it is done fermenting, add some priming sugar
and then cap it tightly. The yeasts give off CO2 that gets disolved into
the cider if there is no place else for it to go. If you simply have a
carboy with an airlock on it, you will never get fizz.
Keith's Axiom:
The stupidity of the male is directly proportional to the importance of the
task. Should your wife tell you that you HAVE to pick up milk on the way
home, you WILL forget.
------------------------------
Subject: "No Fizz"
From: <NLSteve@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:49:19 EDT
D.R. Ferron says:
<< I made my first batch of cider and while it tastes good, there's no
carbonation (and there is supposed to be). I let it sit for the amount
of time called for in the recipe. Does anyone think this is salvageable
or should I just hope my next batch works out? It was suggested that
maybe if it sits longer, the carbonation might occur. >>
Did you add some form of sugar at bottling time? A commonly used amount would
be 3/4 cup corn sugar per 5 gallons, but adjusted amounts may be used of table
sugar, honey, brown sugar, etc., boiled in a pint of water, cooled, and mixed
with the cider in the bottling bucket.
If you did this and still no bubbles after 2-3 weeks, then make sure you have
given it time at room temperature (cold will inhibit this final fermentation).
If it has been in a cold place, put it in a warmer one. Also, you may try
removing each bottle cap, adding a few grains of dry yeast (same variety you
used before) & recapping with a new sanitized cap, then giving it a couple
more weeks. Good luck.
------------------------------
Subject: Resources
From: "David Johnson" <dmjalj@inwave.com>
Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 18:40:57 -0500
Cidermasters,
I may be a little behind on getting this information out but I just found
some resources that might be of interest to the readership. NAFEX (North
American Fruit Explorers) now has a web page www.nafex.org
The most recent issue of Pomona (the NAFEX journal) mentions a commercial
source of perry and cider trees:
Cider Hill Nursery
Lee and mary Elliott
1852 Woodson-Winchester Rd.
Winchester, IL 62694
(217) 882-2047 (evenings).
Looks like I will be expanding my orchard next spring. Is there any info
on perry pears (varieties, hardiness, etc.) that I can get access to?
Dave
------------------------------
Subject: Carbonation and "off" smell
From: dennis key <dione@unm.edu>
Date: Tue, 7 Jul 1998 10:30:31 -0600 (MDT)
Donna: you didn't say if you'd bottled the cider yet. If not and
assuming you haven't reached the yeast's alcohol tolerance, dissolve corn
sugar, 1 Tbs per gallon of cider, in a cup of water. Bring the water to a
boil and allow to cool and pour into a sanitized fermenter. Rack in the
cider, mixing gently and bottle immediately with champaign corks and wires
or crown caps.
"Off" smell--Keith: I've had sulphurish smells with some batches.
Usually a year or two in the bottle eliminates them.
Never Thirst,
Dione
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #753, 5 July 1998
From: Brian Black <b.black@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 07 Jul 1998 07:48:27 -0700
I wanted to pass along a conversation I had with a woman from the Canary
Islands I met at an Independence Day picnic. The hosts hadn't had our
cider yet, so I brought along a case of our Goldfinch Cider, and did a
little presentation on cider at the picnic table. This woman's English
was good (the Canaries are a Spanish holding directly west of Africa in
the Atlantic) and when she finally tasted it she said "OH, this is
sidra!" She said that "everybody" enjoys the Spanish sidra from the
Asturias region of north central Spain (up along the Atlantic Coast -
look for Oviedo and Gijon). She said that during Christmas, sidra is
preferred over champagne, or cava, and that there is a tradition of
making a "long pour", that is, holding the bottle way above the glass as
you pour, and she wasn't sure why (any guesses out there?).
I continue to be amazed at the international "cider culture" that
quietly exists. Let's help bring it to the US! Likewise this little
presentation brought out again that people (at least in the midwest)
don't really have any idea about cider, but have an eager palate for it.
"I could drink this all day" I heard again this weekend. And we did!!
World peace through cider,
Brian Black
Black & Fagan Cider Co.
Grand Rapids, Michigan
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #754
*************************
