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Cider Digest #0737
Subject: Cider Digest #737, 15 April 1998
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #737 15 April 1998
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Where does apple flavor come from? ("David Johnson")
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Subject: Where does apple flavor come from?
From: "David Johnson" <dmjalj@inwave.com>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:21:48 -0500
Cidermakers,
There has been a few items on this forum that have stimulated some
questions from me as I try to make better cider. I was wondering where the
flavors in our cider comes from. I got the impression from a post awhile
back that the apples we use contribute tannins, acids, and nutrients, but
that the fermentation drives off a lot of what we call "apple flavor." So
what determines the flavor we do get? If fermentation drives off "apple
flavor", then would we expect to preserve more flavor in a low starting
gravity cider? How does yeast contribute?
This goes back to my first batches of cider. which was made as follows: 2
gal of fresh pressed cider from my early trees ( Approximately equal parts
of Lubske Queen, Red Astrachen, and Irish Peach), 2 gal commercial apple
juice, 2lbs light brown sugar, 2 lbs dark brown sugar. This made
approximately 4 gals of juice OG 1.094 (pH 3.8) which I did not boil but
sulfited and had a heck of a time getting started. I tried 2 starters of
ale yeasts before pitching some champagne yeast and it finally took off and
fermented down to 1.000. I bottled it sparkling and there are no off
flavors. It is very dry and my wife says that it doesn't have as much apple
character as some commercial cider I bought. ( I think that may in part be
because the commercial cider is sweet). To me it tastes like a decent white
wine. I postulate my mistakes could be 1) making cider with my early season
fruit (I would like not to believe this, I really like the flavor of the
Irish Peach and the Red Astrachen is mentioned in several texts). 2) I
haven't waited long enough for the flavors to mature 3) My apple trees are
still fairly young and are not producing high quality fruit. 4) I shouldn't
have used commercial apple juice 5) Champagne yeast was a bad choice 6) I
shouldn't have used so much sugar 7) brown sugar was a bad choice
My second batch was made from a mix of my mid season apples (a cyser) .
These were in approximately equal amounts ... Alexander, Irish peach and
Bramley's Seedling. I mixed 3 gal of my own juice and 2 gal commercial
juice with 5 lbs honey and fermented with Lalvin K1-V1116 yeast. I did not
sulfite but pasturized at 160 deg for 30 min. OG was 1.084.TG was 1.000
Results are more pleasing but also wine tasting. This batch also spent
about 6-8 weeks more in the secondary.
My experience with cider is quite limited so I don't really know what I am
shooting for. I did send off the first cider to a homebrew competition and
hope to get some useful feedback. I entered it as New England style cider
mainly since it didn't seem to fit anywhere else. If it does well I will
send it to the AHA competition. Will anyone here be judging? I hope that I
will have a better apple crop this year and won't have to use The
commercial stuff to supplement my juice.
By the way since it is a long time till fall and I might want to
experiment in the meanwhile. Are there any commercial apple concentrates
that don't have preservatives?
Dave Johnson
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End of Cider Digest #737
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