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Cider Digest #0774
Subject: Cider Digest #774, 12 November 1998
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #774 12 November 1998
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
de-pressing experience (Dick Dunn)
Re: Cider Digest #773, 9 November 1998 (GREATFERM@aol.com)
Introduction and Questions ("Thompson, Geof")
15 year old chemicals? (kathy)
Re: pear juice source (Don Wegeng)
UK visit (Roy Bailey)
Mayer's Cider Mill (alex.macur@mdconsult.com)
Smelly cider (Knut Riggert)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: de-pressing experience
From: rcd@raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: 9 Nov 98 17:37:23 MST (Mon)
The more I use my "Happy Valley Ranch" press, the less I like it. Oh, it
still works to turn out a fair bit of juice, and it's not a nightmare. It
is much better than another brand of press of similar structure. But I
keep finding little things that should have been done better...for the
cost of the press, they shouldn't have cut some of the corners they did.
Saturday I hit a bigger stumble than usual. Late afternoon we were about
halfway through pressing about 400 lb of apples, and near the end of a
press load. I gave the press-screw that one last part-of-a-turn before
the last wait and the re-load and something said "POW!" (not a normal
noise for pressing apples). One of the bands around the press basket (the
cylinder of vertical staves) had broken at the weld! Now, this was just
over the edge. I suppose you could argue that I'd put a bit too much
pressure on the press, but there is no reason that a welded steel band
should be the weak point of the press!
Fortunately, the friend who was helping me solved it with a phone call that
went something like "George? Dave here. Your TIG set up? Yeah. Flat
steel. 10 minutes away." Half an hour or so later we were back pressing,
but it was still an unwelcome event and could have been a big problem.
I've been thinking these bands on the HVR press should be heavier, that the
welds didn't look very good, and I'd been thinking that it would be nice to
have them in stainless anyway. Well, now I'm *sure* the welds were inade-
quate (reality is trump) and a closer look says the bands are definitely too
light. The basket has a fair bit of flex to it. The bands on this press
are 14-gauge, whereas the bands on a much smaller, lighter-duty fruit press
I've got are 11-gauge!
I've been planning to rebuild parts of this press--replace the juice tray
with oak parts and use real screws (stainless) instead of wire staples that
rust, same thing for the bottom slatted tray, now replace those flimsy
bands, replace the top press plate where two sections of wood have warped a
bit and started to pull apart. I'm not entirely happy with the grinder--it
occasionally produces quite large flat pieces; slightly soft fruit will
stop it up; the yield seems low (50% or less weight/weight). I wonder if
I won't end up doing a piece-wise replacement of the entire press over the
next few years. (Thoughts, suggestions anyone?)
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Hygiene, Colorado USA
...Freedom of the press belongs to the person who owns one.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #773, 9 November 1998
From: GREATFERM@aol.com
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 21:55:41 EST
In a message dated 98-11-09 19:44:01 EST, you write:
<< put them in the cellar at 12 degrees C,
1. The large carboy (54 liters) began at SG 1.055, PH 3.65. It began
fermenting after 2 weeks, >>
54 degrees F is nearly cold storage.
No yeast is going to be enthusiastic at that starting temperature.
2 weeks ? !! And from the context, do I understand correctly that you do not
add yeast ? Even a cultured yeast is going to have difficulty starting so
cold, and as for a wild yeast, God only knows. Using any yeast fit for cider,
and at something above 60 degrees F., you should have active, and protective,
fermentation underway in two days.
There are perhaps 3500 different wild yeasts out there, of which only about a
dozen have been found suitable for commercial fermentation. Why do you suppose?
What are your chances of hitting on that great undiscovered yeast that no one
in the industry has found ? The one which can turn sewage sludge into Grand
Cru.
Wild yeast is road kill stew. Sometimes you get a rabbit.
Jay Conner
Greatferm
------------------------------
Subject: Introduction and Questions
From: "Thompson, Geof" <ThompsonG@DFO-MPO.GC.CA>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 07:32:06 -0500
Hello
My name is Geof Thompson and I live in the Niagara Peninsula for Southern
Ontario, Canada. For those of you whose geography is week I live about 20
minutes north if Niagara Falls. Our area is blessed with one of the mildest
climate in Canada and is generally call the Niagara fruit belt. As such we
have an abundance of all forms of soft fruit. The area is famous for wine
grapes, cherries, and peaches but in reality the greatest number of orchards
are apple and pear. So now you know why I decided to make Cider.(perry next
year)
This is my first go at cider making and at the moment I have three
different batches on the go, each about 5 gallons. I got the juice fresh
from 3 different apple farmers who all assured me that it would make the
very best hard cider. However, they would not reveal their "secret blend of
apples". .
As I stated earlier this is an active grape and wine area a friend
of mine suggested that I filter the cider before I bottle it. He is an
accomplished wine maker and has the filter. However, he has never made
cider. I will be making about half my batch sparking.
My questions are.
Would filtering the cider before I bottle it be a good idea?
If I do filter it what type of filter medium should I be using?
Thanks
Geof Thompson, B.Sc. CLS
Data Base Design Engineer
Technical Services Division
Canadian Hydrographic Service
867 Lakeshore Road
P.O. Box 5050
Burlington, Ontario
Canada, L7R 4A6
------------------------------
Subject: 15 year old chemicals?
From: kathy <kbooth@scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us>
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 19:06:52 -0500
I was given the 12-15 year old remains of a winemaking/brewing hobby
that deceased 12-15 years ago with the hobbyist. The surviving spouse
finally cleaned out the basement and told me to haul it all away for a
couple bottles of my cidre. I got some of the foulest carbouys you can
imagine.
I assume the Campden tablets are still good and the clorine sanitizer.
The Pectic Emzymes and the Hires Root Beer extract are more suspect.
I'll toss the barleywine liquid extract. Any opinions??
cheers, and my 12 gal of fall 98 cider is fermenting away.
wassail, jim booth, lansing, mi
------------------------------
Subject: Re: pear juice source
From: Don Wegeng <dwegeng@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 22:01:41 -0500
>Does anyone else have experience with this source?
>
>Mayer's Cider Mill, Inc
>[etc.]
I bought the supplies for my first batch of homebrew from them 10+ years
ago (I live about 20 minutes from their store). They have been in the
apple cider business for many, many years. In the fall they sell fresh
pressed pasturized sweet cider (from uninteresting apples), and they
ship in fresh wine grape juice.
I still buy a lot of supplies from them, but if I need expert advice I
usually go someplace else. I would not hesitate to buy pear juice from
them (though I never have), but I would do a little research on perry,
pear varieties, etc. before calling them.
/Don
dw@gsp.org
------------------------------
Subject: UK visit
From: Roy Bailey <lvcider@westberks.demon.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 07:20:57 +0000
In message <9811091609.AA20134@raven.talisman.com>, cider-
request@talisman.com wrote
>Roy Bailey <lvcider@westberks.demon.co.uk> mentioned...
>> Not only did we talk cider, we (naturally) drank some. I provided some
>> of my 1997 Royal County dry, which received complimentary remarks from
>> such acknowledged experts, and we sampled two of Andrew's excellent
>> products.
>
>It was interesting to me because, of the little breadth of experience I've
>got with tasting English ciders, I'd come to like the Somerset/Hereford
>styles more. Roy's style (he's "Lambourne Valley Cider Co") is more like
>Kentish, and my first reaction to the Kentish style a couple years ago was
>that it seemed sharp and thin. Roy's ciders were not guilty on either of
>these counts...I feel more inclined to drink the Kentish style again.
Very kind of you :-)
>It's also a bit of inspiration for cider-making, since for the most part
>it's difficult for Americans to find other than dessert/culinary apples.
>The Kentish style is based on "eating" varieties rather than cider-
>specific varieties; thus it's a style we'd have a better chance of making
>here.
Kent (and also the other Eastern English counties of Sussex, Suffolk and
Norfolk) use both eaters and cookers to make their cider, as I do. I
went to a cider festival at the National Fruit Collection at Brogdale in
Kent in September, and I was very impressed by two Kentish ciders made
this way. One was a new producer; the other had been going a few years;
but I thought that both their ciders had much more aroma, taste, flavour
and distinctiveness than the offerings from the West Country - the
traditional heartland of English cider.
> (I'm not about to grub out the Dabinetts and Kingston Blacks and
>such that I've planted, but I've got to make some cider between now and
>when those trees finally mature enough to bear!)
>
I'm very glad to hear it!
>We brought back a bottle of Lambourne Valley's "Royal Ransom" and served it
>at a small party last Friday to favorable reviews all around.
Actually that one is called 'King's Ransom' because it was made from the
fruit of an unidentified tree growing in a village called Kingsclere.
The apples are big and red, but no one knows what they are.
> It struck me
>as having yet more body than Roy's other cider we tried, and for the little
>I really know of styles, I'd have a hard time putting it in a particular
>style pigeon-hole.
Certainly it is much sweeter than 'Royal County'. The juice fermented
very quickly last winter, but by January it had stopped at about 1010
degrees and cleared, giving a residual sweetness. 'King's Ransom' won an
award at a CAMRA beer and cider festival in June, so we are keeping a
careful eye on the tree! There is much less fruit this year, but enough
to make a few bottles.
At the risk of this sounding like a free advert for Lambourn Valley
Cider, we have pressed about 350 gallons of juice so far, with still
some to come. Unfortunately, because of the poor summer this year the
gravity of the juice is between 4 and 6 degrees down on last year, so I
am having to add cane sugar to maintain a reasonable alcohol level.
- --
Roy Bailey - Proprietor, The Lambourn Valley Cider Company
------------------------------
Subject: Mayer's Cider Mill
From: alex.macur@mdconsult.com
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 09:42:33 -0500
Mayers is one of the few cider mills I have been able to find that
still presses a lightly-filtered, un-pasteurized, un-sulfited Apple
cider specifically for the hard cider makers.
They also press grapes for winemakers.
My wife's favorite drink is pear cider. First time I checked with
Mayers they did not know a source for pear juice but they must decided
to add it to their product line. I just checked again and apparently
they are now planning on pressing a pear cider but did not have an
exact date it would be ready.
Mayers phone number is (716) 671-1955
- --
Alex
------------------------------
Subject: Smelly cider
From: Knut.Riggert@t-online.de (Knut Riggert)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 1998 21:34:36 +0100
Hi there,
I have got a 50 l batch of cider fermenting well. The juice was high in sugar
(1.065) and acid 9 g/l. I slighly sulpherised it, so that it has got now 30 mg
of free SO2 per litre. Its fermenting well. The only thing I am a bit concerned
of is the slight H2S or rotten egg smell it got.
I would appreciate any hint on that problem.
All the best, Knut
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #774
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