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Cider Digest #0803
Subject: Cider Digest #803, 12 April 1999
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #803 12 April 1999
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #802, 8 April 1999 (LOneill953@aol.com)
Cider wine, sparkling cider, fermentation problems (Dave Burley)
yield (Jason.Gorman@steelcase.com)
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #802, 8 April 1999
From: LOneill953@aol.com
Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 17:40:44 EDT
It's been my experience that as far as benefits from aging goes yeast has a
lot to do with it. I'm not too sure if oak is essential to flavor profiles
or a side issue. I've made cider with Pasteur Champagne, Montrachet and
natural yeasts. I haven't used oak chips or barrels for cider but I know how
they would effect the flavor profiles of wines. When it comes to aging and
aging with oak it's like comparing apples to oranges. Just recognize that
the too are simular but not entirely related.
Lance O'Neill
Beer, mead, Cyser, cider maker
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Subject: Cider wine, sparkling cider, fermentation problems
From: Dave Burley <Dave_Burley@compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1999 11:54:43 -0400
Ciderfolks,
Jake Hester in his 2, April posting said:" what keeps this
[i.e.cider] from becoming apple wine?
..... so what should stop the alcohol level at 5 or 6%?"
<
Jake,
It is the sugar content. Grapes have about twice the sugar
content ( or more) than almost all other fruits.
This higher sugar content will ferment out typically from
10% to 14%. That is the normal alcoholic strength range
of wine. Cider as you indicated is typically around 5-6%.
Add some sugar to your apple juice to bring its original
specific gravity into the range of 1.09 to 1.1 and you will
produce a wine in the 12-14% range which will be bottle
stable.
Adding nutrients will likely be necessary to get this to
ferment to dryness, as the yeast need a source
of nitrogen ( typically ammonium phosphate) and sterols
( typically yeast hulls - dried yeast bodies) to get to these
higher levels, in most cases, with a low nutrient juice like
apple. Yeast nutrient from your winemaking supplier
has these in there. If not, crush up a tablet of brewer's
yeast from your health food store. Make sure
the binder in the tablet will not affect the wine. You
can also just hydrate and briefly boil a 5 g. packet of
dried bread yeast in a cup of water and use that.
A half teaspoon of ammonium phosphate per gallon
is sufficient. Less may be OK.
Vitamin B-complex is a valuable additive, often not
necessary if the above yeast has been added. One
tablet crushed and added to 5 gallons is helpful in
preventing sticking of the fermentation
You will also have to add a wine yeast
(Saccharomyces cerevisiae [S.c.] or S. bayanus),
so that the yeast can finish out higher than about
8% alcohol as happens often with "natural" or
wild yeast. I would choose a yeast which is
typically used in white wines and produces
a mellow taste. Like Montrachet or Steinberg.
Montrachet is readily available, but it must have plenty
of nutrients and be removed from the wine as soon as
the fermentation is finished or the wine may develop a
sulfury aroma. This aroma can be removed with the
addition of ppm of copper sulfate, but great care
and experience is needed. Better to prevent by adding
sufficient nutrients and removing the wine from the yeast
cake ( racking) as soon as possible.
A crisper taste might be had using California
Champagne Yeast. This S.c. yeast is often used
as the primary yeast in champagne production.
S. bayanus, called Prisse de Mousse or other names
is used in the second in-bottle fermentation.
If you choose to make sparkling apple wine,
keep the alcohol content to 10% (SG~ 1.08) and
then add only enough sugar to bring the carbon
dioxide to about 3 atmospheres. Charge each bottle
with sugar syrup diluted with some wine ( the dosage)
and an active starter of S.bayanus. and
USE ONLY CHAMPAGNE bottles. You may have
problems finding a crown cap to fit these European
bottles or US bottles which do not even have a
proper lip for this. You can use the plastic stoppers
( available from your winemaker supplier)
common on inexpensive US sparkling wine.
Wire them on.
You can "riddle" (clarify) these bottles, methode
champagne, but if you keep the CO2 content low
(real Champagne is 5-6 atm) and serve the cider
very cold, pouring it all off into a cold pitcher
immediately after opening and discarding the
last 1/2 inch or so,you can have clear sparkling
apple wine that is very nice. Alternatively, if you
choose to use the more readily available beer
bottles, keep the carbonation to around 2
atmospheres.
As you get more sophisticated, you may wish to
adjust the acidity with tartaric acid. Wine
typically titrates out to 0.65 ppt ( reds)
to 0.7ppt (whites) based on tartaric acid.
Since the primary acid in apples is malic
and not tartaric, as in grapes, these
guidelines may not apply directly, but it
is a starting point. Sparkling wines
traditionally have a higher acidity level
something like 0.75 ppt. Taste-test it on
a small, cold sample first.
Although apple juice is buffered to some
extent,it can still have problems similar to
meads in which there are virtually no buffers
to control the pH. This is especially true at
higher alcohol contents like apple wines.
When the pH drops into the 4's, yeast can
slow down or even stop fermenting.
Adding a little calcium carbonate ( chalk)
to bring the pH back into the 5's can
rejuvenate a fermentation so that it
finishes to dryness.
- -----------------------------------------------
David Dodge in trying to make a
sparkling cider (or wine) says:
"... It started
with a very active 5 gallon primary fermentation under a champagne yeast, and
continued in a secondary for approx. 3 months At bottling, I added 3/4 cup
of corn sugar. Two weeks later I wanted to make sure everything worked so I
sampled a bottle. No carbonation! I would appreciate any troubleshooting
suggestions. Alcohol percentage is ~8% and I filtered with a wine filter as
before. I'm stumped."
Well your first clue was the fact that it took
3 months - a sign that the juice
is nutrient poor and probably fell into the
lower pH ranges - see above solutions.
Your second clue was that you filtered it.
After three months, the cider quit fermenting
because the yeast died of starvation or
their cell walls leaked due to the low sterol
availability in the juice, not because all of the
sugar was necessarily gone.
Since you filtered it - removed the yeast -
AND the yeast was likely dead it is no
wonder you had no carbonation.
To get carbonation it is necessary to
have an active yeast population.
As I suggested above, add an
active population of yeast at bottling time.
I often take a small amount of yeast
from the bottom of the fermenter and
add it to some dilute juice to which a
small amount of ammonium
phosphate has been added.
Add your priming sugar as a dilute syrup
to each bottle ( to ensure a uniform
distribution) fill the bottle and add
a small portion of the fermenting
starter to the bottle. Cap it .You will be
guaranteed to have good carbonation.
If the starter will not ferment,
you will need to use some new yeast,
but you have saved yourself
some agony.
What can you do now? If you are SURE
the cider was fermented to dryness
( Clinitest = <1/4%) uncap each bottle
and add a small amount of active starter
to each bottle and recap.
If, as I suspect, this cider did not ferment
to dryness, I suggest you remove it back
to the fermenter, with minimal splashing,
check the pH, add chalk if needed,
add the nutrients and more yeast and
ferment it out and then rebottle
it with the proper charge of priming sugar
and active starter.
Otherwise, you may end up with cider
bottle bombs which are not only not fun
to clean up, they can be very dangerous.
- ------------------------------
Incider forever,
Dave Burley
Dave_Burley@compuserve.com
------------------------------
Subject: yield
From: Jason.Gorman@steelcase.com
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 10:33:00 -0400
What is the pound to gallon yield ratio when extracting cider from apples?
Bascially how many apples does it take to get a gallons worth? Does it depend
on the apple or is it pretty standard?
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End of Cider Digest #803
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