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Cider Digest #0741
Subject: Cider Digest #741, 7 May 1998
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #741 7 May 1998
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Saving cider (Richard Sewards)
Re: Cider Digest #740, 4 May 1998 (Dave Kain)
Re: Cider Digest #740, 4 May 1998 (Terence L Bradshaw)
Re: Cider Digest #740, 4 May 1998 (William J. Rhyne)
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Subject: Re: Saving cider
From: Richard Sewards <rsewards@nettestca.gn.com>
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:57:38 -0400 (EDT)
On 4 May 1998 mlv@pobox.com wrote:
> With my third batch (a success, despite a convoluted fermentation
> process) rapidly vanishing, and with thoughts on batch 4 (using
> some good store-bought juice that I found) starting up, I thought
> I'd better check with those better in the know about a practice
> of mine.
>
> In my first two batches, I stashed a couple bottles away, with the
> idea that I would someday take a bottle from all my batches, and
> compare them. I'm planning on stashing a couple bottles from this
> batch as well.
>
> Is this a bad idea? Am I wasting of cider? I havn't opened up any of
> the old bottles yet (batch 1 was back in fall/winter '94, batch 2 was
> in late spring, '96, and batch 3 was last fall, '97). Am I likely to
> find them terrible-tasting? The first and third batches were rather dry.
> The second batch was a little bit sweeter.
>
> In other words, what's the shelf-life of cider?
Not long ago I finally got round to bottling some of my 1996 cider. It
tastes fine, except that it is refusing to carbonate in the bottle (the
last bit of yeast must have all settled out). I suspect I will have to
innoculate the bottles to finish it properly.
I have had a batch from around 1992, which was not a particularly good
summer (wet and cool) here in southern Ontario, which we ignored for about
4 years, after which it was much better. I've had bottles from other
batches taste great after a few years in the bottle.
I guess if you made it well then it will keep and improve for a long time.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Sewards richard.sewards@nettestca.gn.com
GN Nettest (Datacom Division) (905) 479-8090, fax:(905) 475-6524
55 Renfrew Drive,
Markham, ON, CANADA, L3R 8H3 =* 121245
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #740, 4 May 1998
From: dpk1@nysaes.cornell.edu (Dave Kain)
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 16:34:30 -0400 (EDT)
>Subject: E. coli and sulfite
>From: Bruce Dunlop <bdunlop@rockisland.com>
>Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:06:25 -0700
>
>There has been much talk about E. coli in apple cider these days and one
>past reference in the cider digest to the lack of survival of this pathogen
>in fermented cider. Does anyone know of research work that has looked at
>the survival of E. coli in fresh cider that has been treated with sulfite?
>Or in grape juice for that matter. There is a fairly large market suppling
>grape juice to winemakers and these folks could be facing the same problem
>us cider makers are in getting fresh juice that has not been heat treated.
>Thanks.
>
>Bruce
>
Cider digest:
Here is an excerpt from an article recently posted on a USDA apple bulletin
board from Dr. Mosbah Kushad of the University of Illinois:
"Commercial preservatives like sodium benzoate and potassium sorbate were
tested for their effect on E. Coli O157:H7 in unpasteurized apple cider.
0.1% Potassium sorbate had very little effect on E. coli, while 0.1% sodium
benzoate was more effective in reducing the contamination. The best
results were obtained when both preservatives were combined. "
I recall other posts (a couple of which I previously relayed to the Cider
Digest, others I can't relocate) that made it sound like the only sure ways
to completely destroy E. coli in cider are pasteurization and fermentation.
I'll keep trying to find something specific on sulfites.
Dave Kain
David P. Kain
Dept. of Entomology
New York State Agricultural Experiment Station
Geneva, NY 14456
email: dpk1@nysaes.cornell.edu
Phone 315-787-2341
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #740, 4 May 1998
From: Terence L Bradshaw <madshaw@quest-net.com>
Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 19:14:33 -0400
1. Cider should be drunk within five years, I feel, but should be aged
for one before consuming. It is always interesting to taste ciders as
they age, however, and I don't see a problem with saving a few bottles
of each batch for a day ong in the future.
2. Two cider competitions I know of:
American Homebrewer's Association National competiton:
see http://www.beertown.org/AHA/NHC/index.html
Northern New England Regional Home Brew Competition
contact Martin Stokes at: Mstokes@apollo.umenfa.maine.edu
- --
Terence L Bradshaw
Pomona Tree Fruit Service Golden Apple Orchard
RD 1 Box 150 Whalley Road
Chelsea, VT 05038 Charlotte, VT 05445
madshaw@quest-net.com http://www.uvm.edu/~tbradsha/home.html
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #740, 4 May 1998
From: rhyne@pop.winterlan.com (William J. Rhyne)
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 08:27:59 -0700
RE: Cider keeping qualities
>From what I have read here and else where, cider that has been sealed to
prevent exposure to oxygen will keep for a long time--years. I had some 10
year old cider a couple of years ago and it was very tasty. This assumes
that the cider is good to start with and good, clean technique was employed.
RE: Gravenstein: In Sonoma County, many Gravenstein apples are grown and
they are used mostly for juicing and canning. We have found the juice to
have plenty of sugar and lots of acid, and low pH--all good for fermenting
purposes. One problem is that they are early harvest(July-Augustin
California) so you need to be ready for them. They are not keepers from
what I understand so you need to juice quickly. If you don't have
refridgeration, they will start fermenting immediately given the warm
temperatures of August. Our batch last year went dry on 8 days. Before
bottling, we blend it with our other batches. We like the results.
Bill Rhyne
Rhyne Cyder
===========================
William J. Rhyne
===========================
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End of Cider Digest #741
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