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Cider Digest #0761
Subject: Cider Digest #761, 27 August 1998
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #761 27 August 1998
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Scab (Andrew Lea)
Citrate and perry pears (Andrew Lea)
Small Cider (Richard Anderson)
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Subject: Scab
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:54:59 -0400
In Digest #760, Dave Johnson asked about the effect of scab on cider
quality. In my view it's somewhere between nil and beneficial. Look at
any old Pomona and you'll see pictures of scabby apples - it was the norm
for hundreds of years until effective sprays came along. I have three Hogg
and Bull 'Herefordshire Pomona' reproductions on the wall beside me which
are quite typical of the 19th century situation. I've just taken one off
the wall (a 'Foxwhelp') and scanned it so you can see what I mean. It's on
my web site as a 94KB JPEG image as follows:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea/scab.jpg
In my personal opinion scabby apples always have a higher concentration of
flavour compounds than perfect fruit and if I get a chance I always choose
scabby fruit to eat!! This I think is due to increased secondary
metabolism induced by the infecting fungus (the 'phytoalexin response').
So I would deduce that scabby apples may make better cider!!
The only caveat I would add is that if a tree becomes badly scab infected
on the LEAVES, then its general health suffers and that's bad for the tree
and bad overall. So - a little bit of scab on the fruit is no problem, but
if it gets out of hand over the whole tree then treatment may be required.
Nobody wants sick trees in an orchard!
Andrew Lea
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Subject: Citrate and perry pears
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 17:54:55 -0400
In Digest # 760, Dave Johnson asked why citrate in pears is perceived to be
a problem. The logic goes as follows:
Pear juices are often low in acid (i.e. above the magic pH 3.8). A
significant part of the acid in pears MAY be citric (the major part is
malic, as in apples). If the pH is high, perries are more likely to be
attacked by bacteria and go malo-lactic. These bacteria convert malic to
lactic (no adverse flavour implications) but convert citric to acetic
(which has an objectionable flavour). Acetoin is also produced which may
convert to diacetyl to give buttery notes (tho we pay good money for this
in Chardonnay!!!). Hence the pH of pear juice should be reduced < 3.8 (but
NOT with added citric) and SO2 used to prevent malo-lactic fermentation.
This is the received wisdom. It was perhaps significant in the heyday of
traditional perry making in the West Midlands - today it would only apply
to 'craft' perry makers (and how many of those are there?). Worth noting
that many modern cidermakers add citric acid to adjust their blends and so
far as I know they don't have a major problem with acetification (but then
they try to prevent the malo-lactic change anyway, in most cases, so the
issue doesn't arise).
Andrew Lea
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea =
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Subject: Small Cider
From: Richard Anderson <baylonanderson@csi.com>
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 21:31:11 -0700
I would like to second Andrew Lea's idea for sharing ideas and
processes. I think we have everything to gain as cider makers to share
ideas in growing and making a traditional product. For the small
producer, the Gallo's and Woodchuck's of the world are not our standard
bearers or competitors. We can learn from our mistakes and successes to
produce a unique, superior cider. Our site at:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/baylonanderson is to share what
my wife and I have done to put in a small orchard. One area we would
like to expand on is identifying varieties suitable for making good
cider and where to get them at a reasonable price. And yes we still need
to produce some cider and are looking for advise.
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End of Cider Digest #761
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