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Cider Digest #0709
Subject: Cider Digest #709, 8 December 1997
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #709 8 December 1997
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: wood parts on a cider press [etc] (Dick Dunn)
Wood on Cider Equipment ("capshew")
Unpasteurized Cider Source in SoCal? (johnjohn@triceratops.com)
Wood parts on a cider press (Roy Bailey)
Sanitation (Dave Kain)
Wassail (kathy)
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Subject: Re: wood parts on a cider press [etc]
From: rcd@raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: 3 Dec 97 15:50:43 MST (Wed)
Thanks for the various responses to my questions about wood press parts.
Marc Montefusco <mmontefusco@mmsw.com> suggests:
> There are probably three reasons to finish wooden parts that are exposed to
> juice, none of them (to my mind) compelling. First, for sanitation, since
> wood, whether close or open grained, is an excellent harbor for
> microorganisms. Second, to prevent the transfer of unwanted flavor to
> the cider. Third, to prevent to gratuitous loss of juice through
> absorption and leakage.
I'll offer a fourth: To prevent the wood from deteriorating. This should
not be a significant problem with hardwoods that are normally used with
food. The one place in my HVR press where I see a problem (already) is in
the plywood plate for the base of the juice tray. More on that below.
I'm not too worried about the sanitation issues (with or without finishing
the wood). The wood "flavor" would be OK if (a) it were the right wood and
(b) I only wanted it for cider, where it would be a welcome addition. But
for fresh juice, even a little bit of wood-taste is strange and unwelcome.
> ...Finally, in my own ancient hand press which
> I use for test batches, I replaced the wooden drip pan with a stainless steel
> model, eliminating the area of greatest contact and greatest potential juice
> loss...
I've come to the conclusion that the juice tray is the most likely source
of the problem. My guess, based on what I can see at the notch where the
juice drains out, is that it's "baltic birch" plywood...that's the only
type of plywood I've seen that's generally available with hardwood facing
and so many plies (13 in 18mm, nominal 3/4"). Even though I gave it
several coats of finish and plenty of time to dry/harden, the wood is still
raising slightly, indicating that juice _is_ getting to it. Replacing this
part with wood is a puzzle, to be sure...you just can't buy a piece of oak
lumber 15" wide, and if you could it wouldn't be strong enough. Mark's
idea of a stainless tray is a good one, but I shudder a bit thinking about
the likely cost.
"Luedtke, Jim @ MIN" <jluedtke@isisys.com> wrote:
> I preferred a penetrating finish such as oil to a finish that sits on
> the surface (such as varnish), reasoning that it's not ever going to
> flake off into the cider.
I see the point, but I'm working with a varnish that is rubbed in, so it
shouldn't leave anything thick enough to flake on the surface.
> Dick, I strongly suspect the birch plywood as the culprit for the wood
> flavor you speak of. In my experience, birch has a stronger odor than
> maple, and plywood veneers naturally have minute cracks which
> theoretically could allow the cider to penetrate and pick up more
> flavors than from solid wood. By all means finish the tray.
Well, I did finish it, but obviously the finish wasn't up to the task. It
might be that I should have applied the finish much heavier and let it
stand on the wood as long as possible before wiping the excess.
"GREATFERM@aol.com" (Jay Conner) suggested Pickering Winery Supply as a
source of food-grade epoxy finish. They were helpful when I called; I'll
report back if I go that route (which I may for the old press tray so I
can keep it even if I end up making a new one). Jay also wrote:
> I am really surprised that you get any flavor pickup whatsoever from apple
> juice and raw unfinished wood...
I was surprised too, but reality is trump. (Note that it was finished wood.)
>...I don't think anyone in the wine industry coats wood, usually red oak,
> in presses...
Yes, but I'm guessing they don't mind the oak character, plus they probably
get more juice volume through per surface area of press wood, and it will
mellow (just like a barrel) with use.
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd, domain talisman.com Boulder County, Colorado USA
...Are you making this up as you go along?
------------------------------
Subject: Wood on Cider Equipment
From: "capshew" <capshew@otherside.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:23:10 -0500
I have been coating the cider contact parts of my cider press with either
paraffin wax or a combination of paraffin and bees' wax. There have been
no off flavors although the coating wears off in a year or two.
I use mineral oil on the frame since there is no contact with the cider.
The
mineral oil is also used for the metal parts to prevent rust.
Bob Capshew
capshew@otherside.com
------------------------------
Subject: Unpasteurized Cider Source in SoCal?
From: johnjohn@triceratops.com
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:26:02 -0800 (PST)
I know that Trader Joe's has cider fit to be fermented, but
does anyone have any other sources for cider in the Southern
Californai (preferably Orange County) area? Farmers markets?
Do I have to make a trip to Temecula (would doing so actually
yield me a cider source?!)?
Anyone? Bueller? :)
John
- --
John White
Triceratops Admin
johnjohn@triceratops.com
------------------------------
Subject: Wood parts on a cider press
From: Roy Bailey <lvcider@westberks.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:07:01 +0000
In the West of England there is a company called Vigo Vineyards who
supply equipment to the wine- and cider-making industries.
According to their catalogue, their presses are made of oak and
stainless steel, but the slatted boards, or racks, which are
interspersed between the layers of cloth-wrapped pulp, are made of
acacia wood. As far as I am aware, neither this wood nor the oak is
treated in any way, and I cannot believe that untreated oak would be in
any way detrimental. Racks can also be made to order in English ashwood.
I imagine that acacia wood is more freely available in the USA than in
Britain.
Vigo's phone numbers are +44 1823 680230 (voice) and +44 1823 680807
(fax)
- --
Roy Bailey - Proprietor, The Lambourn Valley Cider Company
(Real cider from the Royal County)
The Malt House, Great Shefford, HUNGERFORD, Berks RG17 7ED, UK
Tel & Fax: 01488 648441 New URL: http://www.westberks.demon.co.uk/lvcider/
------------------------------
Subject: Sanitation
From: dpk1@nysaes.cornell.edu (Dave Kain)
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 09:28:05 -0500 (EST)
Check out the Virtual Orchard at Univ. of Vermont/Rutgers for info on
sanitary production of fresh cider:
http://orchard.uvm.edu/rce/ciderstuff.html
Probably a good idea for home cider makers to follow this procedure, too,
whether or not you plan to ferment it.
Dave Kain
David P. Kain
Dept. of Entomology
New York State Agricultural Experiment Station
Geneva, NY 14456
email: dpk1@nysaes.cornell.edu
Phone 315-787-2341
------------------------------
Subject: Wassail
From: kathy <kbooth@scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us>
Date: Fri, 05 Dec 1997 14:16:56 -0500
A recipe I enjoy from a local dairy chain is:
1 gal cider
juice of 8 oranges (about 2 1/2 c)
juice of 4 lemons (about 2/3 c)
2 c sugar
4 cinnamon sticks
3 t gd. alspice
1 t gd. clove
1/2 t gd nutmeg
simmer 1/2 hour and add alcoholic bev as you choose.
Wassail, jim booth, lansing, mi
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End of Cider Digest #709
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