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Cider Digest #0670
Subject: Cider Digest #670, 13 June 1997
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #670 13 June 1997
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
EVERYONE please note: UCE, the digest, and email providers (Dick Dunn)
RE:K-sorbate (PickleMan)
Sorbate and Benzoate (Andrew Lea)
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Subject: EVERYONE please note: UCE, the digest, and email providers
From: rcd@raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: 10 Jun 97 11:47:09 MDT (Tue)
Please note the following--it may affect your ability to receive the digest
and particularly your ability to post articles to it.
Due to the continuing problem of unsolicited commercial email (UCE, also
called "spam"), the system which provides my email service has instituted
some "spam blocking", and I am supportive of the effort. The main element
of this is refusing to accept mail from sites which are known sources/
supporters of UCE senders. You've probably already encountered some:
hotmail.com, cyberpromo.com, savetrees.com, etc.
How this may affect you: If your email provider is a known "spam host",
you will not be able to submit articles to the digest. If you change your
email provider to one that is a spam host, you won't be able to re-subscribe
to the digest after you move. (If you think you've found a "great deal"
on cheap e-mail support somewhere, think twice. Anything that's cheap for
you is an inviting place for the junk-mailers; they'll take it over as
soon as they find it.)
The current readership is, as far as I know, OK with one exception:
juno.com. I have made arrangements for the current subscribers at juno.com
to be "grandfathered" so you can still receive and send to the digest, but
I won't be accepting new subscribers from juno.com.
The situation is unfortunate. The Internet used to be a more friendly and
free place, but...well, when thieves move into the neighborhood, you have
to be careful about locking your door. The massive theft of resources and
services by UCE senders has made a few locks necessary...and their relay-
bombings, forgeries, and other scams are making the situation even worse.
While I'm writing about your access to the digest, another point: Microsoft
"Exchange" (for email handling) has problems that have caught several people
lately. It can generate spurious mail which will get you unsubscribed from
the digest, and it can create garbage "attachments" when you send mail that
will cause your postings to the digest to be discarded. If you can't ditch
Exchange and get a real mailer, just beware the attachment and vacation-mail
"features". (It has other misfeatures that make for ugly mail, but the two
I just mentioned cause actual failures.)
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd, domain talisman.com Boulder County, Colorado USA
...Boulder was.
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Subject: RE:K-sorbate
From: PickleMan <wrp2@axe.humboldt.edu>
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 13:25:29 -0700 (PDT)
To respond to the last portion of Russ' question of sorbate affecting
taste I can say that yes it does. Every cider I have tried with it has a
varied degree of geranium smell to it (and smell affects taste). It is
due to the presense of sorbate and malolactic fermentation. I believe you
can reduce the off smell by adding sulphite with the sorbate, but this
cider should be consumed before the sulphite wears off.
PickleMan
wrp2@axe.humboldt.edu
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Subject: Sorbate and Benzoate
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 16:00:51 -0400
In Digest #669, Russ Kazmierczak asked
>>I was wondering if anyone can answer the follwoing questions
>>regarding potassium sorbate and sodium benzoate. =
>>1) Which of the two is better for preventing fermentation
>>after sweetner or concentrate has been added back to the cider?
Sorbate is more effective than benzoate weight for weight at any given pH
But neither of them can be guaranteed to work absolutely. They're only
yeast inhibitors and some yeasts can outgrow them. (We just had through our
laboratory a blackcurrant soft drink which contained the maximum permitted
level of both sorbate and benzoate and was growing yeasts very nicely,
thank you) Also they don't work against bacteria so spoliage of ciders
(though not re-fermentation) can still occur. Sorbate is most effective if
used synergistically together with sulphite.
>>2) How much do you add per 5 gallon batch (volume and weight)?
>> I have potassium sorbate in granular form and sodium benzoate
>>in 0.25 gram tablets.
In Europe the maximum legal limit for sorbate in ciders is 200 parts per
million (0.02%). That's 200 milligrams per litre or about one gram per
gallon (make sure your material is pure and not 'cut' with something inert
like lactose). Benzoate isn't permitted in ciders in Europe but its usage
would be about the same. However, in other food products levels up to 0.1
- - 0.2% may be used. I think I'm right in saying that benzoate up to 0.2%
used to be permitted in US sweet cider (but probably isn't nowadays?). The
activity of these preservatives is inversely proportional to pH so, the
more acid the food, the less you need. In foods with pH > 6, neither
sorbate nor benzoate are any use at all.
>>3) Is there any maximum exposure concentrations and long term
>>health effects associated with the two compounds?
Sorbate and benzoate are naturally occuring in many food plants, rowan
berries and cranberries respectively being good examples. Not that this
makes them completely non-toxic, of course! All the toxicity data has been
reviewed by the WHO/UN Joint Expert Committe on Food Additives (JECFA).
They set an ADI (Acceptable Daily Intake) of 350 mg per day for benzoate
and 1.75 g per day for sorbate - this for a 70 kg adult. This is based on
intake at those levels for every day of your life! In practice the ADI is
set at a 100 fold safety margin lower than the 'no observed effect' level
in animals, and much much lower than any levels causing adverse effects in
lifetime animal studies.
>>4) Will either of the compounds have an effect on taste.
At very high levels I believe some people can taste benzoate (a bit
medicinal?). Sorbate is no problem in itself, but in the presence of
bacteria it will slowly react with the alcohol to form an ethoxy derivative
which gives an off-flavour of geraniums. This doesn't happen if sulphite
is used as well to inhibit the bacteria.
Andrew Lea, nr Oxford, UK
(andrew_lea@compuserve.com)
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
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End of Cider Digest #670
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