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Cider Digest #0666
Subject: Cider Digest #666, 21 May 1997
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #666 21 May 1997
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Cider Press (Mike York)
Fireblight (Rod McDonald)
Re: simple process? (Marc Montefusco)
use of tannin (Tumarkin@ix.netcom.com)
Federal Cider Tax (Richard Anderson)
Cider Apple Economics (Richard Anderson)
Newbie (Brian Kondalski)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Cider Press
From: myork@asheboro.com (Mike York)
Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 21:05:04 -0400
Thanks Don (Donald_Wegeng@xn.xerox.com),
Great information about apple pressing. I believe you know how it is done.
That is what I am looking for--one of those old antique presses. The old
timers knew how to press apples.
We have a free publication here in North Carolina called the "Agricultural
Review" that has free advertisment for farmers. Sometimes you can find one
of those old powerful oak and iron corkscrew presses for sale that will
actually mash the apples into a small amount of mush.
Are the Happy Valley Ranch models for sale? Do they have the grinder and
press that we are talking about? What is their price and address?
Thanks again,
Mike
Mike York
myork@asheboro.com
"Shagging Forever"
129 Vaughn York Rd.
Staley, NC 27355
910 824-8937
------------------------------
Subject: Fireblight
From: Rod.McDonald@dist.gov.au (Rod McDonald)
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 14:49:14 +1100
Dick Dunn wrote:
Around here (meaning Colorado front range, at least), fireblight is
a sufficiently serious problem that it has to be taken into account
in choosing stock. And in a practical sense, I find myself
constrained to semi-dwarf trees because the full-size are unwieldy
and the full dwarf seem too delicate. Add that our soil is a heavy
clay loam, and I haven't been able to locate any plausible
rootstocks for here _except_ M7 and variants.
Just last week in Australia we had our first fireblight scare - an oleander
in the Melbourne Botanic Gardens - coincidentally spotted by a
horticulturalist from New Zealand who is pushing for the lifting of import
restrictions on NZ apples (NZ has fireblight, we don't) - smells a bit eh?
He also took the samples without permission, and without verification.
Dick, from what you wrote it seems that the larger growing the rootstock
the more resistant the tree. Is that the case? How does fireblight work,
and is resistance in the rootstock the key to having a crop of apples?
I assume there has been a considerable amount of research done in this
area.
Rod
------------------------------
Subject: Re: simple process?
From: Marc Montefusco <mmontefusco@mmsw.com>
Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 10:25:25 -0400
Ray Robert (bravely) asked for critiques of his basic cidermaking process.
On paper (or on screen) it looks fine. The devil is in the details. Here
are a few details that might help.
1. Air is the enemy. Unless you protect your cider at the end of and
following fermentation, you run the risk of infection with various
acetobacters, which will turn your cider into vinegar. Use an airlock
during fermentation (readily available from homebrew or home winemaking
suppliers, or you can make your own). Use fermenters and storage containers
that have a minimum of airspace when filled ("ullage", if you want to add a
word to yuor Scrabble vocabulary.) During the bottling process, expose the
cider to air as little as possible. This means siphoning, not pouring. It
also means placing the delivery end of the siphon tube at the bottom of each
bottle, not letting the cider run down the sides.
2. Watch fermentation and storage temperatures. Both fermentation and
storage are better accomplished at temperatures lower than we humans are
comfortable with, which is why cidermaking is often a cellar-based activity.
Be especially conscious of temperatures during primary fermentation, when
things happen very quickly. Yeasts are more likely to produce off-flavors
at higher temperatures, and malevolent organisms may get off to a faster
start. High 50s (F) or low 60s are best.
Look in back issues of the Cider Digest for other and more expert advice.
Good luck!
Marc Montefusco
New World Cider
------------------------------
Subject: use of tannin
From: Tumarkin@ix.netcom.com
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 07:14:50 -0400
I just bottled my second batch of cider. It did not clear as much as the
first batch (although it was in the fermentor considerably longer - 5
weeks for the first batch, 11 weeks for the second). It was racked
several times. There was a good 1" layer of yeast & stuff on the bottom
of the last carboy, so a lot had dropped out. I had thought about using
finings but didn't.
One reason I didn't was because I have read that using finings to clear
the cider will also cause some of the flavor to be lost. With this in
mind, and also because my local source of fresh juice is certainly not
from cider varieties, I have been thinking about tannins. Several
comments I have read here and in other places lead me to believe that
tannin level is one of the big differences in cider apples, when
compared to dessert eating type apples that are certainly more common
now.
Can adding tannin help in this respect? If so, what is the procedure and
amount of tannin to be used in a 5 gallon batch?
Thanks in advance,
Mark Tumarkin
The Brewery in the Jungle
------------------------------
Subject: Federal Cider Tax
From: Richard Anderson <BaylonAnderson@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 20:08:08 -0400
There is a Cider Tax Bill(HR. 159) pending. This bill would reduce the
federal tax on cider containing less than 7% alcohol from the current
$1.07 per gal to $.226 per gal. This would tax cider at the same rate as
beer rather than the current wine rate. This bill was introduced by John
English of Pennsylvania. For those of you so minded, write your congress
person, particularly if they sit on the House Ways & Means Committee.
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Apple Economics
From: Richard Anderson <BaylonAnderson@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 20:08:04 -0400
Terry raises a good point when he writes "The problem with creating a
commercial cider from cider apples involves cost of production of the
fruit." In the Northwest, cull apples at best go fort $225/ton and often
commercial cider makers can get them for $100/ton, so you are talking about
apples at 5 to 10 cents a pound. Many commercial cider makers are food
scientist, leveraging cheap cull dessert apples and readily available
wine making capacity for their product. Their business model approximates
the craft beer industry with a wine cooler product, this is not meant to be
critical, just an observation. Anyway, at these prices you can see that
there is little incentive for a grower to grow small apples which taste
bad.
The point I want to make is that people who want grow traditional cider
apples will have to produce a good cider to get a fair return on their
efforts. I am looking for business model which will provide this. One
vision I have is having multiple growers/producers with pooled pressing
equipment. A little completion is good and can be a plus in marketing. (
like an Apple Valley Cider tour). I like this model because I think it
fits into the "sustainability" concepts that some rural areas are looking
at. Any ideas out there which you would like to share?
Rich Anderson, Westcott Bay Orchard
------------------------------
Subject: Newbie
From: Brian Kondalski <brian.j.kondalski@cdc.com>
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 11:30:57 -0400
Having found that I really enjoy the various commercial brands of
draft cider, I have decided that I'd like to take a stab at making
my own. However at this point I don't think I'm willing to spend
the money for a grinder or a press. How can I make a batch of cider
if I don't have these items? I just want to be sure before I spend
the money on equipment that this is something that I will continue
to do. I'm located in the Detroit, MI area, and there are many
cider mills around. I was thinking that I might be able to purchase
some cider from one of them and use it to start making my own draft
cider. Would this work? If anyone else on the list is in the
Detroit area, are there any brewpub type stores that would carry
the equipment/supplies/support that would help me get started? I'd
be willing to buy the other equipment at this point, and was thinking
that I would bottle the finished product, but it just seems that the
price of a press and grinder is alot to have to swallow on the
first batch.
Thanks in advance,
Brian
- --
Brian J. Kondalski
brian.kondalski@cdc.com
http://www.cdc.com/ie/people/brian
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #666
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