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Cider Digest #0665
Subject: Cider Digest #665, 18 May 1997
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #665 18 May 1997
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Pressing Your Own Cider ("Wegeng,Donald")
cider in Virginia (John B Gilmour)
simple process? ("Ray Robert")
Rootstocks (Derek Bisset)
Commercial ciders--the problem (Terence Bradshaw)
rootstock (Dick Dunn)
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Subject: Pressing Your Own Cider
From: "Wegeng,Donald" <Donald_Wegeng@xn.xerox.com>
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 14:11:28 PDT
Most experienced cider makers already know this, but since there are
quite a few new subscribers to the Digest I thought I'd say a few
words about pressing your own cider.
Pressing apples is a two step process. The first step is to grind the
apples into pulmace. The intent is to break up the fruit into
smaller, somewhat softer pieces (but not mush). I'm not sure whether
freezing the apples would serve as a good substitute for grinding
them. I use an apple grinder sold by Happy Valley Ranch. It works
pretty good, as long as the apples are a little bit soft (which is
desirable for other reasons).
The second step is then to squeeze out the apple juice using a press.
There are many types of presses available. Most commercial cideries
use hydraulic presses, which cost lots of money. Home users can get
by with a hand cranked press, such as the model sold by Happy Valley
Ranch. I use an antique grape press, sixteen inches in diameter,
which I bought second hand for $60 (US dollars).
I usually get between 2 and 2.5 gallons of juice per bushel of apples.
A lot depends on how patient I am when I'm crushing the pulmace (I get
more juice if I leave the pressure on for a few minutes), but it's a
tradeoff between efficiency and time.
Pressing cider is a fun group activity. We usually have a couple
people grinding, while others run the press, plus we need someone to
label containers, fetch apples, etc. Of course we sample the sweet
product as it comes out of the press, and use it to wash down some
doughnuts. Everyone has a good time, especially kids.
/Don
donald_wegeng@xn.xerox.com
------------------------------
Subject: cider in Virginia
From: John B Gilmour <jbgilm@malthus.morton.wm.edu>
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:19:48 -0400 (EDT)
I have lived in Williamsburg, Virginia for a couple of years but have not
found a good source of fresh apple juice for cider-making. The one local
orchard presses a juice that is bland, bland, bland. Does anyone know of
an orchard in eastern Virginia that makes a good juice for cider purposes?
John Gilmour
------------------------------
Subject: simple process?
From: "Ray Robert" <Ray_Robert@bah.com>
Date: 14 May 1997 14:32:04 -0500
After a couple of cider debacles (my last was a 45$ batch which resulted in 6
gallons of vinegar), I am going to try again. I was wondering if someone can
offer or critique my process for making still cider.
1. Get fresh cider, no preservatives
2. Add campden tablets, wait 24 hours
3. Add yeast of choice (probably wine yeast)
4. Ferment out
5. Bottle
A simple approach would be best, because, well, I am simple. I intend on
trying this on a smaller scale so I don't end up watering my lawn with the
results.
Regards
Robert
ray_robert@bah.com
------------------------------
Subject: Rootstocks
From: Derek Bisset <derek_bisset@bc.sympatico.ca>
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 21:25:23 -0700
The effects of rootstock,apple variety and soil have all to be considered
together I think when deciding on a new planting.Climate and time input
have to be considered as well. I have planted traditional cider varieties
on M26 on rather light soil in an area, Southern B.C., which has dry
summers. I have no irrigation. Yarlington Mill and Chisel Jersey are
growing well making sizable trees, but Dabinett and Michelin need to be
on more vigorous rootstock, probably MM106.I have one Dabinett tree only
three feet tall after four years in the orchard while Chisel Jersey is
fifteen feet tall.
The traditional system of using standard trees with livestock
under seems attractive but for the wait as Andrew Lea points out and the
possibility of infection from animal droppings which we are so concerned
about these days.
Labour input is a concern. I have some vigorous dessert apples,
Boskoop, for example, on M26 that are too large to work on easily. I like
trees that are low enough to be easy to work on without tall ladders. I
think the best bet would be to talk to local growers and check their
experience. They will have similar conditions although not similar
varieties.
I am concerned about M9, although I am trying some, because of the
biennial fruiting of some varieties putting too much load on the trees in
an 'on' year. I already have an Orenco on M26 with a permanent lean for
that reason.
------------------------------
Subject: Commercial ciders--the problem
From: tbradsha@zoo.uvm.edu (Terence Bradshaw)
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 06:24:32 -0400 (EDT)
I have many points to make regarding the commercial; (Woodchuck, ciderjack,
etc.) ciders out there:
> I was startled recently to see a cider made all from
>"grannie smith" apples. This is by the makers of Woodchuck. Does anyone
>have any experience making cider from only one type of apple?
I tried this thinking that Granny Smith might make a decent cider apple.
The stuff has less taste than Budweiser. Don't bother.
>Where would be
>a good place to start looking for a "Great" cider apple in the northeast?
I forget the name of it but there is an orchard in Northfield, MA that
specializes in cider varieties. I have not been there yet but plan to go soon
> I've been to Nashoba Valley (out in Bolton, MA) and their cider
>isn't too bad, but neither they nor anyone else in the area seemed to have
>an idea of what constitutes a great cider apple.
Most of their fruit are Baldwins, BTW
Now onto some notes on cider pricing:
>Subject: re:merridale
>From: fortin@unixg.ubc.ca
>Date: Fri, 9 May 97 23:10:35 PDT
>
>While it is true that one cannot find merridale cider in
>B.C. provincial liquor stores, it can easily be found in many
>pubs on tap as well as in bottles in many 'wine shops'.
>Be forwarned though if you attempt to find it, it will cost
>you! A 500 ml bottle of scrumpy costs about $ 5,50 Cdn.
The problem with creating a commercial cider from cider apples involves cost
of production of the fruit. A cidery with an orchard must pay production
costs for its fruit which usually run $6-8 per bushel in large commercial
orchards, more in smaller, less efficient ones. Woodchuck buys its fruit
from Vermont Apple Company, a large packing house and fruit wholesaler.
About 60% of the fruit coming through there are Macintosh (which we all know
make a lousy cider), with the rest Red Delicious, Empire, and other eating
varieties. Appoles which do not pass inspection for "table fruit" are sold
BELOW THE COST OF PRODUCTION and therefore allow Woodchuck to sell for $4.79
(okay, it's on sale this week) a six-pack.
On that note, why do commercial cider makers artificially carbonate and sell
in 12 oz bottles? To compete with beer, that's why! I see now that the
Boston Beer Company (Sam Adams) is distributing a cider which is also bland
and boring. The point: If you want real cider, you have to A) make it
yourself, assuming you have the equipment amd access to the right apples, or
B) buy it from a true cider maker who has planted the orchard with cidering
in mind. It lloks like this is going to be more of a possibility with
people like Richard Anderson, the folks at Merridale, and myself (planting
in spring '99, grafting in the nursery now) establishing orchards, but you
will have to pay for the product, and not expect a cheap knock-off like
Woodchuck.
Responses??
- ---------
Terence L. Bradshaw
Assistant Manager
Tougas Family Farm
246 Ball Street
Northboro, MA 01532
temporarily on leave from Vermont
------------------------------
Subject: rootstock
From: rcd@raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: 16 May 97 08:02:31 MDT (Fri)
In the US, it seems that M7 rootstock is commonly available, and at least
two large mail-order sources I know use it (or improved variants) almost
exclusively for semi-dwarfs. There are two reasons I know of: suitability
to heavier soils, and fireblight resistance. I have heard that fireblight
hasn't been a problem in England but (alas) the US may have succeeded in
exporting it.
Around here (meaning Colorado front range, at least), fireblight is a
sufficiently serious problem that it has to be taken into account in
choosing stock. And in a practical sense, I find myself constrained to
semi-dwarf trees because the full-size are unwieldy and the full dwarf
seem too delicate. Add that our soil is a heavy clay loam, and I haven't
been able to locate any plausible rootstocks for here _except_ M7 and
variants.
Dick
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End of Cider Digest #665
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