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Cider Digest #0728
Subject: Cider Digest #728, 27 February 1998
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #728 27 February 1998
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #727, 23 February 1998 (Jean-Pierre Boileau)
Hardy apples (Zone 4) ("Grey N. Horton")
Cider (Zaephod Beeblebrox)
Re: Cider Digest #727, 23 February 1998: Cider variety budwood (Terry Mal...)
New UK-based Cider mail-order business ("J Spector")
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #727, 23 February 1998
From: Jean-Pierre Boileau <jpierre@scsn.net>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:40:40 -0500
I have a question...
I've made about 6 batches of cider since I started homebrewing, and out of
those, 4 came out tasting "metallic". All juice came from the same farmer,
but I can't quite but my finger on what could be wrong.
I'm wondering if the metallic taste could come from oxydization.
Any ideas?
JP
------------------------------
Subject: Hardy apples (Zone 4)
From: "Grey N. Horton" <Nathaniel.N.Horton-1@tc.umn.edu>
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:51:24 -0600
Ironically, I've had a copy of a Master's thesis entitled "Juice and
Hard Cider Qualities of Some Apple Cultivars and Seedling Selections
Grown in Minesota" sitting under my mouse pad. I suppose I really ought
to return this to it's owner, but I'll quote some bits of it for you,
and if you desire more information, feel free to email me. I am a
graduate student at the University of Minnesota. I am working towards a
Masters in Horticulture and am working for the U's fruit breeding
program. From what I have gathered (mostly as part of lit review for a
grape hardiness project), that indeed many cultivars of grapes and
apples are not hardy in our lovely zone 4 because they either do not
"acclimate" before killing frosts and/or do not develop enough
resistance to freezing before things get nasty (ultimate midwinter
hardiness). Acclimation seems to be based on a photoperiodic response-
that is, the plant senses how long the dark period of the night is and
uses this as a gauge of when it should stop growing and begin preparing
for winter. After growth has stopped, the first frost of fall will
trigger development of further cold hardiness. If growth does not stop
soon enough, the tree will not properly harden and will experience
severe injury. The photoperiodic response is genetic and is not to my
knowledge able to be favorably changed.Back to the thesis: it defines
tannins as being a very complex family of compounds- a union of
phenolics (benzene-like) and protiens. Anyways, they're complexsome
being more effectively "tannin-like" than others. Katherine Reeves, the
author, says that total phenol estimates are common in the literature
but are not direct estimates of the tannic nature of the juices. She
quotes another paper stating that Kingston Black ranged from 1.10 to
2.9% tannins, while if I convert correctly, the apples tested are no
higher than 0.2%, though this is higher than the 0.013 to 0.084% range
she reported for eating apples, so I could be wrong here. I have total
phenol averages (mg/g of flesh) for Haralson, Honeygold, Fireside, NW
Greening, McIntosh, Regent, Prarie Spy, Golden Delicious, Red Delicious,
Wealthy, Keepsake, and Sweet Sixteen. I have estimates for some
seedlings (which may have been released) if you are interested, but
they're all pretty low (0.29 to 1.98 mg/g). I have more sensory
evaluation data if you are interested.
Grey Horton
Dept. of Horticulture
U of Minnesota
> After doing a bit of research, I came to the conclusion that the
> European cider varieties defoliate too late to survive Zone 4 winters.
>
> I'd REALLY like to be proved wrong on this point.
> I have since turned my attention to varieties that are climate
> appropriate, however I can find no published information on tannin
> levels for American varieties. Lacking a spectrometer, my queries have
>
> come to a halt. Has anyone come across any such information?
>
> John Mason
------------------------------
Subject: Cider
From: Zaephod Beeblebrox <frankem@erols.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 21:21:35 -0500
In reply to Michael Cukrow:
I have cider I put in ponies over a year ago. Still teasts great. Mine
was 9% ABV. Consequently the ponies.
BTW I presume you added yeast, or did you use mother nature's finest?
Frank M.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #727, 23 February 1998: Cider variety budwood
From: Terry Maloney <westcounty@ibm.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:59:14 -0500
There is an article in the Journal of Agricultural Research, Vol 36, No.
5, Mar 1, 1928, pp 391-416 that lists the composition,including tannins,
of French, English, and some North American varieties. There are only a
handful of the latter, and those are rare today (Early Joe, Hog Island,
New Engand Pigeon, etc.) The bibliography looks like it might lead to
some other sources.
Terry Maloney
West County Hard Cider
------------------------------
Subject: New UK-based Cider mail-order business
From: "J Spector" <jonathan@creativegardens.source.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 23:33:26 -0000
Brief Commercial Announcement
(this is not an advert)
No one else seems to be serving the rest of the UK with real cider, so I am
now starting up a new business to deliver door to door, by mail-order, to
UK addresses only.
My inital offer will be a 19.99 (Pound Sterling) pack of 5 very different
ciders, a total of 8 litres - less than 1.50 (Pound Sterling) per pint, to
include vintage and special varietal local brands from small-scale local
Somerset farmhouses.
I think their produce is beautiful; if you would like a sample pack, please
contact me on e-mail.
>From Jonathan Spector
Creative Gardens Ltd
Norton Fitzwarren, Taunton, Somerset
reply to jonathan@creativegardens.source.co.uk
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #728
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