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Cider Digest #0713
Subject: Cider Digest #713, 24 December 1997
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #713 24 December 1997
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #712, 21 December 1997 (Sean Kelle)
Dry ciders (Chasman)
Re: Acid Titration (Bruce Dunlop)
Re: A US Cider Standard (Marc Montefusco)
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #712, 21 December 1997
From: Sean Kelle <SeanKelle@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 14:24:50 EST
In a message dated 21/12/97 18:50:10 GMT, you write:
<< Making Woodpecker my model would be the bland leading
the bland, but the only other British version I've seen in Minnesota is
Weston's, and last week's tasting trashed it also.
Maybe I'm just too fussy, but there has got to be something better out
there. Suggestions?
>>
Unfortunately all the major brands in Britain are naff, the good stuff coming
entirely from small producers. Merrydown if it makes it across the pond is
SLIGHTLY better as an example of an east of england cider (eating & cooking
apples.
The only proper westcountry (cider apple) makers that are any good and big
enough
that they MIGHT get exported are Inch's (now owned by H.P.Bulmers but so
far not spoiled) from Devon, and Thatchers from Somerset.
However these are heavily filtered and artificially carbonated when bottled.
Real westcountry cider is still and drunk draught in the pub or collected
directly
from the cider maker in whatever container comes to hand!
------------------------------
Subject: Dry ciders
From: Chasman <cwhudak@mail.adnc.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 11:44:20 -0800
Jim writes:
>I have made dry ciders now and again for over 10 years.
<snip>
> However, it is quite dry,
>with few recognizable 'apple' qualities, and no doubt quite different
>from the traditional English farmhouse ciders that sound so good.
>
I don't know what the general consensus is on the digest; I've only made
several batches so far, but I find that ale yeasts work much better for
cider fermentation. I made a cider early this season with 5G of tart juice
and 1p of golden brown sugar. I fermented it with a british ale yeast
(whitbread, I think) and it is fabulous. S.G. 1.080, F.G. 1.012. It has
plenty of apple character and is almost clear already, certainly ready to
drink, though aging will be interesting. I made another with late harvest
juice (very sweet, no acidity) and 0.5p golden brown sugar and 0.5p dark
brown sugar and fermented with Wyeast California Common yeast. While still
young, it too is going to be very good though it will need some acidity
adjustment. Neither are 'quite dry'; I am not fond of "winelike" ciders, I
like some residual sweetness. A fellow in my homebrew club made a cider
with the same early season juice and fermented with a champagne yeast and
it is awful (*very* dry, sulfury and no apple character at all). Main
difference, the yeast.
If you want a dry cider, ferment with a highly attenuative ale yeast that
will leave only trace residual sweetness. To me, wine yeasts are overkill
for a cider.
My 0.02
Charles Hudak
Charles Hudak in San Diego, California (Living large in Ocean Beach!!)
cwhudak@adnc.com
ICQ# 4253902
"If God had intended for us to drink beer, he would have given us stomachs."
- --David Daye
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Acid Titration
From: Bruce Dunlop <bdunlop@rockisland.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 17:58:11 -0800 (PST)
There are many references to acid levels in apple cider, but no clear method
for measurement. Does anyone know of a standard method for acid titration
used by the cider industry? Thanks.
Bruce Dunlop
------------------------------
Subject: Re: A US Cider Standard
From: Marc Montefusco <mmontefusco@mmsw.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 14:04:24 -0500
One of the few commercially available "farmhouse" ciders that I have
tasted in the US is made by the proprietors of The Apple Farm in Philo,
California. I'm almost certain that they don't ship it anywhere. For
those in the neighborhood of the Anderson Valley in Mendocino County,
California, or for would-be visitors, it's a good US approximation of
British and European rough ciders. They can be reached at
707-895-2333. They grow a number of interesting varieties of apples
organically, and also make fine cider vinegars.
Other ciders commercially available in the US, which don't necessarily
meet the criteria of being "English" or "farmhouse", but are
nevertheless what I think of as being good interpretations of real
cider, are the products of the West County Winery in Colrain,
Massachusetts, the "Wild Country" import (which didn't even receive an
honorable mention in the recently published tasting, but which I think
is an excellent French cider), and the Duche de Longueville line of
French varietal ciders, especially the Bedan. Another California winery
which I may have mentioned here in the past is the Fitzpatrick winery,
with a Web site at http://www.isgnet.com/fitzwine. They produce a small
amount of gutsy organic Jonathan cider with a lot of oak, and they will
ship.
In some ways, the search for the archetypal English cider is a quest
more enjoyed in the undertaking than in the conclusion. Don't worry too
much about what other people think of a given cider -- try it yourself.
It may fit perfectly with your mental idea of what constitutes the
perfect cider. Above all, enjoy the process.
Marc Montefusco
New World Cider
"Out of the gate in '98"
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End of Cider Digest #713
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