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Cider Digest #0705
Subject: Cider Digest #705, 16 November 1997
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #705 16 November 1997
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
wild yeast fermentation (robbie+@alectro.soar.cs.cmu.edu)
Brown Sugar ("paskins@sirius.com")
Questions... ("Leo A Demski (NC)")
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Subject: wild yeast fermentation
From: robbie+@alectro.soar.cs.cmu.edu
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 97 8:53:04 EST
Andrew Lea writes in Cider Digest #701 (Sat, 1 Nov 1997):
> Just on this topic - all apples contain large numbers of wild yeasts INSIDE
the fruit itself, which gives upwards of 10,000 cells per ml in the juice
as soon as it's pressed. You can't avoid this! The species are
principally Hanseniospora valbyensis (formerly called Kloeckera apiculata),
Metschnikowia pulcherrima, and a few Saccharomyces uvarum. Hence the juice
will start to ferment by itself within a couple of days at room
temperature, iniated by the first two species. Results may be variable but
if you keep the whole system under an airlock to avoid development of
bacteria (with or without sulphite addition too) then a 'succession' will
develop finishing up with the Saccharomyces dominating as the alcohol
rises. You get interesting flavours this way and hence interesting ciders
I have just pressed my first cider (apples from SW Pennsylvania... Johnagold,
Rome, McIntosh, Stayman Winesap, Empire, Northern Spy, Johnathan... it was
what I could get my hands on), and I decided to try a small amount (1/2 gal.)
of the 13 or so gallons using only wild yeast. It's been 5 days since the
pressing, and no fermentation activity (i.e. no bubbles throught the airlock)
is occurring. I haven't taken the temperature of my basement, but it is
probably in the 60 degree Fahrenheit range. Am I being too impatient??
Andrew Lea also writes about racking... is this to get the must off of the
wild yeast when they are really cooking along to slow fermentation? Based on
his only having racked a wild yeast fermentation cider once after more than
a month, I guess I have a ways to go.
Robbie Warner
Pittsburgh, PA
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Subject: Brown Sugar
From: "paskins@sirius.com" <paskins@sirius.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 08:18:52 -0800 (PST)
I was thinking of using brown sugar instead of corn sugar for bottling,
which I am hoping will produce a sparkling, but dark, cider. Does anyone out
there know what the conversion rate would be? Should I perhaps mix
corn/brown sugar. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Anthony D. Paskins
paskins@sirius.com
San Francisco, CA
"The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence that it is not
utterly absurd." Bertrand Russell
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Subject: Questions...
From: "Leo A Demski (NC)" <demski@virtu.sar.usf.edu>
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 23:15:31 -0500 (EST)
Hi everyone! I've been reading all of the great information for 9 months
or so, just kind of easing into making some more cider myself...
My second batch started about 9 days ago, (what will hopefully be a sweet
cider, or at least not particularly potent, appley, and good). My recipe,
which I pieced together from a combination of following the discussion,
the cat's meow, and my first experience, was as follows:
3 1/2 gallons fresh storebought apple cider (ziegler's or something like
that)
3 12 oz cans Seneca Granny Smith frozen juice concentrate
1 12 oz can Seneca frozen apple juice concentrate
120 oz H20 (to de-concentrate the frozen stuff)
Wyeast London Special Ale
I wanted a cider that would be nice to drink, that wasn't extremely
alcoholic or estery...(My first batch I used a lot of extra sugar, and
champagne yeast- the result was a dry- sweet and sour apple champagne that
eventually overcarbonated)...
Anyhow, my questions:
1. I live in South Florida, where unfortunately apples just dont grow
(that I'm aware of)...to make cider, the best thing I could find
(best-tasting) was the Ziegler's cider. However, not only is it
pasteurized, but after I added the yeast, I noticed that it has potassium
sorbate added...(even with an active incubated Wyeast, there was no
discernable activity in the carboy for 5 days)
Is that a preservative that inhibits fermentation? The carboy is
bubbling now, but it has about a gallon and a half of non sorbated cider
in it too...Will I wind up with an extremely sweet cider? Does anyone
have any insight?
2. How long does the average (no extra sugar added cider) take to
ferment? I forgot to take a S.G. reading, so I want to know what period
of time I can expect...3 weeks, a month, etc.? Any ideas?
3. Does anyone know of alternative cider sources for us apple-impaired
southern types? (I'm originally from Kentucky- I often think of those
days in my childhood when we had 2 types of apple trees, one pear and a
crabapple tree on our property, and we couldn't figure out what to do with
the excess crops...Mom wound up making a ton of apple and pearsauce, but
no cider or perry crossed our palates, unfortunately...)
Thanks for any suggestions- I look forward to any in-cider information!
Leo Demski
_____________________________
demski@virtu.sar.usf.edu
Archaeology grad student@large
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End of Cider Digest #705
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