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Cider Digest #0679
Subject: Cider Digest #679, 8 August 1997
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #679 8 August 1997
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #678, 4 August 1997 (Rod McDonald)
Hard Cider Discussion List (Peter R. Hoover)
The never-ending ferment (Andrew Lea)
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #678, 4 August 1997
From: Rod.McDonald@dist.gov.au (Rod McDonald)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 12:52:38 +1000
Subject: The Neverending Ferment
From: Ron Sielinski
<sielinr@dynisys.com> Date: Mon, 04 Aug
1997 20:56:55 -0400
Ron,
What temperature was it when you noticed it kicking off again. I'm no
expert, having only recently gotten seriously into cider making, but it
sounds awfully like malo-lactic fermentation taking place, which is good.
It is usually described as another stage in the complete cider fermentation
process which occurs in the spring (ie after it warms up a bit - I think it
is around the 16 deg celsius mark that it kicks off) following the autumn
of the first fermentation. The second phase converts malic acid into lactic
acid, and the cider is smoother as a result.
Rod
- ------------------------------
Subject: Hemispheres
From: rcd@raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn) Date: 4 Aug 97 19:59:51 MDT
(Mon)
If we're serious about cider, we're going to have to deal with the
trendy aspect; we'll see the cider-equivalent of "wine coolers"
(actually, in one American brand we already have). With luck, we might
find a way to turn it to our advantage in promoting real cider.
Dick,
Following on from some discussion recently on Cider Digest about cider economics
and marketting, it seems to me that the only way 'real cider' is ever going to
gain ground is by grabbing a niche somewhat similar to 'boutique beers'.
Certainly if people with the knowledge such as cider makers on this list don't
sieze any opportunities for getting into the debate then the industrial brewers
will certainly treat ciders as kiddie drinks and fruit tingles (an Australian
fizzy sweet, oops, candy). There is no necessary reason why a trend can't be
positive for a change. Boutique beers a a good example, despite the name. Until
about a decade ago almost 100% of beers in Australia were indistinguishable
bat's piss. Over the decade the big breweries had gradually bought out all
smaller breweries and then got rid of any variation. New smaller breweries
started to set up some very different products that cost a little more, and now
most pubs in Australia realise that they have to offer a wider choice. Of course
the economics of cider apples still has to be addressed.
Rod
rod.mcdonald@dist.gov.au
------------------------------
Subject: Hard Cider Discussion List
From: prh4@cornell.edu (Peter R. Hoover)
Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 09:13:20 -0400
Dear Folx,
Info on Paul (sp.?) Correnty?? Met a person from the Boston area recently
who's got 300-year old (!!) apple trees, and wants to do something with
them. Please e-mail to me directly at prh4@cornell.edu. Thanks.
Peter R. Hoover, Cornell Publications Services, East Hill Plaza
Ithaca, NY 14850; 607 255-9454; fax, 255-5684 (prh4@cornell.edu)
------------------------------
Subject: The never-ending ferment
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 15:15:55 -0400
In Digest #678, Ron Sielinski wrote:
>>But this spring, when the temperatures began climbing again, I
>>decided to rack the cider before bottling (to help clear it). I
>>gave the cider time to settle, and it began producing CO2
>>again. I thought, okay, so the cider got too cold for a while
>>and now it's starting back up again. In a couple of weeks,
>>everything will be fine.... Now it's August and the cider is
>>still bubbling. Now I'm not sure the cider will ever
>>finish. Can anyone explain to me what's going on? I'd
>>especially like to know what's kept my cider going for so long.
This sounds awfully much like a classic malo-lactic fermentation to me.
What happens here is that specialised bacteria (Lactobacilli or
Leuconostoc) get to work on the malic acid in the cider and convert it to
lactic acid, thereby making the cider smoother and losing CO2 in the
process. This typically occurs in spring as the temperature rises, just as
Ron describes. It used to be believed that the cider and the blossoming
trees were somehow in sympathy and working together! Today, sadly, we're a
bit more prosaic!
This is usually beneficial unless the ciders are very low in acid to start
with. The gravity will not now change since the yeast fermentation is long
finished and it's acid, not sugar, that's being metabolised. You can
probably bottle the ciders in this state and they'll be naturally sparkling
without so much danger of explosion!
See my web page at
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea/part3.htm
for more details; also Gillian Grafton's page at
http://sun1.bham.ac.uk/GraftonG/cider/cider.htm
and a bit about malo-lactic fermentation in wines at
http://www.winery.com/winery-wine_intl/jjml.html
(Wine makers of course often inoculate deliberately with special cultures
to encourage the malo-lactic fermentation)
Andrew Lea, nr Oxford, UK
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End of Cider Digest #679
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