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Cider Digest #0693
Subject: Cider Digest #693, 17 October 1997
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #693 17 October 1997
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
(stronger cider) (Dick Dunn)
Finding local apples ("John R. Bowen")
increased alcohol (Di and Kirby)
Algebra and MLF ("John R. Bowen")
Started a new cider ("Dave Moore")
("Mike Wagler")
freezing to concentrate (kathy)
Re: Cider Digest #692, 15 October 1997 (Sherwood Botsford)
Re: Cider Digest #692, 15 October 1997 (Derek Bisset)
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Subject: (stronger cider)
From: rcd@raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: 15 Oct 97 11:03:00 MDT (Wed)
"Mike Wagler" <wags@golden.net> wrote:
> Hi Im new to cider making and have a simple question.
> I see most of the cider recipes are 8%, is there anyway to crank it up to
> 15 or 20%
(I'm having a hard time finding any positive way to react to this.)
What's the point? Are you interested in making cider, or just looking for
a way to get cheap booze? Do you care at all what it *tastes* like?
If you have 8% cider, you can get something around 19% if you just add 1
part 100-proof vodka for every 2 parts cider. Is that what you had in
mind? (I hope not, but if so, please don't waste *good* cider on it.)
OK, I suppose I should be more forgiving about the question. I suppose I
*would* be more forgiving if this hadn't started off with "Hi, I'm new, how
can I get more alcohol?" without any consideration of what cider is about.
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd, domain talisman.com Boulder County, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Finding local apples
From: "John R. Bowen" <jbowen@primary.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 14:03:42 +0000
I am amazed at the number of apple trees with unused apples in this
area. Those of you who are using commercial juice or concentrate
might want to look around now for free apples, figure out some easy
way to crush or grind, press or not, and make a little interesting
juice.
I live in the vast western suburbs of St. Louis, MO. Within a mile of
my house I have located:
1. Two interesting crabapples (I had to taste 28 to find two I liked)
that I picked and processed to blend with my summer apples. The owners
were glad to have them out of the yard and off the driveway.
2. A fairly large golden delicious that I could have picked, had I
the time, and shared the apples with the owner.
3. Two unknown varieties ripe about now, located on an abandonned
farmstead, now on undeveloped industrial property. Ask the
groundskeepers for permission.
4. Two other trees of variety unknown to me, ripe now, with a rich
winelike flavor and a slightly acidic afterbite. Good eating and, I
bet, good cider. They are in residential yards, dropping on the
grass. I haven't time to get them, but I would bet I could have all I
could pick for free, a couple of bucks, or a future delivery of some
cider.
5. Another on a street right-of-way next to a golf course. Not yet
ripe, so I can't assess it. But I bet I could pick it without asking
anyone.
6. And three or four red delicious that I wouldn't bother with.
All of these are unsprayed, essentially organically grown, usually
from badly overgrown and unpruned trees. There is a certain
satisfaction in locating these unused assets, tasting them, saying "I
think this would be good", and using them. Certainly the quality
control of using known percentages of known varieties isn't there, but
a sense of adventure and the satisfaction of the hunter-gatherer sure
is.
And who knows, you might even make a new friend or two. Look around
and give it a try.
John
------------------------------
Subject: increased alcohol
From: Di and Kirby <trillium@magibox.net>
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 07:12:12 -0500
> From: "Mike Wagler" <wags@golden.net>
> I see most of the cider recipes are 8%, is there anyway to crank it up to
> 15 or 20%
Sure, but not with plain apple juice. You'd have to add honey
(technically making it "cyser") or sugar. I'd also use a yeast that can
handle lots of alcohol, like a champagne yeast. I think they can get up
around 15-18% alcohol.
Man, I hope I'm not one of a zillion folks posting this. :)
Cheers,
Diana
------------------------------
Subject: Algebra and MLF
From: "John R. Bowen" <jbowen@primary.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 16:15:58 +0000
Dan, I find myself a little perplexed. It seems to me that the 3056
will be quite capable of taking the cider to dryness AND eating up any
of the the additional juice you add to sweeten it later. How do you
propose to stop the action of the yeast (and the wild yeasts) so the
extra stuff you add won't be fermented in the bottle?
Another question on the 3056. Are you using it because you already
have a nice healthy culture from your beer secondary, or are you
trying to get that banana/clove flavor in the cider? A local brewer
told me he had tried 3056 to get the flavor, and it wasn't formed. He
speculated that 3056 needed something from the wheat malt to form
those compounds. I am currently fermenting a gallon of cider with
3056 and a little wheat malt, and the banana seems to be coming
through nicely. While using 3056 from your secondary is not the same
as from a fresh starter, please let us know if the banana/clove is
present in the cider.
I have read a little more about the malo-lactic fermentation since my
last questions. It is reported to be tricky, sometimes occurring,
sometimes not, being encouraged by a long exposure to the lees and mid
70F temperatures, extremely sensitive to sulfites, starting and
stopping, unpredictable to start by innoculation, and generally a
pain, culture wise. So even if you wait, it may not occur.
I don't know if you need to wait before bottling. I have heard that
it isn't that strong in CO2 production and won't make bottle bombs,
but I don't know from experience.
John
------------------------------
Subject: Started a new cider
From: "Dave Moore" <moore@mnsinc.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:26:47 +0000
I started a new cider and have put the in-progress log on my web for your
entertainment.
<Ok, it's a slow hobby and the entertainment value is limited>
Ingredients:
4 Gallons of fresh cider deep frozen first
In a previous attempt to deep freeze yeast for reuse, I could
not get a viable culture. So I figure deep freezing will knock
out the wild yeast well enough to avoid sulfiting.
3 lbs. of Raisins
To add tannin and because I like raisins.
10 12 oz. cans Granny Smith frozen concentrate
Wyeast #1338 European Ale
Pectin Enzyme
O.G. 1.085
Check the web page for details and disasters.
PGP key available at "http://www.mnsinc.com/moore"
Dave Moore
------------------------------
Subject:
From: "Mike Wagler" <wags@golden.net>
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 23:02:32 -0400
HI Guys , Ok Im new to this cider stuff, Ive got my cider and now I need
your help.
I need a simple XXX recipe with a high level of alcohol, Please help a
simple fool!!
thanks, wags@golden.net
------------------------------
Subject: freezing to concentrate
From: kathy <kbooth@scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us>
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 07:18:41 -0500
Diane askes about concentration via freezing. My daddy use to (note he
died in the 1970's -BAF&whatever) skim ice from the pear cider stored on
the back porch. Unfortunately, exposure to O2 is a problem and vinegar
notes do develop. At least my long abandoned efforts to emulate my
father, using 2 L pop bottles produced an unfortunate twang of vinegar.
Wassail....jim booth, lansing, mi
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #692, 15 October 1997
From: Sherwood Botsford <sherwood@Math.UAlberta.CA>
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:21:29 -0600 (MDT)
On 15 Oct 1997 cider-request@talisman.com wrote:
> Subject: Re: Cider Digest #691, 13 October 1997
> From: "Dione Wolfe, Dragonweyr, NM dkey@medusa.unm.edu" <DKEY@MEDUSA.UNM.EDU>
> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 15:38:37 -0700 (MST)
>
>Concerning freezing and skimming ice until ambiance reaches 0 degrees: A great
>idea that should make some potent rocket fuel---but illegal. It's my
>understanding that unlicensed brewers/vintners, etc., such as us are prohibited
>by Federal law from concentrating our product in any way, such as distilling or
>freezing and removing the ice. Of course, what you do is your business, but be
>careful about posting it.
>
>If I am mistaken about this, I'd be happy to hear so. Some of my cysers and
>meads would be great in a more concentrated form.
>
>Never Thirst,
>
>Dione
>
In Canada I've not heard anything against it. Cider, wine, and beer
are pretty much open territory, unless you *sell* the stuff. Then
the gov. want's it's take. I think here you can even run a still,
and make up to X gallons of hard liquor a year -- same proviso --
no selling. X is an absurdly large number, I think close to a barrel.
Sherwood Botsford | email avatar@vega.math.ualberta.ca
Sorcerers Apprentice | Office CAB 642B
System Administrator | Tel: 403 492 5728
Trouble shooter | Fax: 403 492 6826
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #692, 15 October 1997
From: Derek Bisset <derek_bisset@bc.sympatico.ca>
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:09:02 -0700
Wyeast 3056 is an ale yeast I believe. Mike will probably get better
results with a champagne yeast. I have used Wyeast 3021 Pasteur champagne
yeast. I have also had good results with Wyeast 3632 Dry Mead Yeast.
I have tried Wyeast 3184 Sweet Mead Yeast which is supposed to leave
residual sweetness. It may do with mead but id didn't with cider.
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #693
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