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Cider Digest #0662
Subject: Cider Digest #662, 8 May 1997
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #662 8 May 1997
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
response to low traffic (Cider Digest)
Re: Cider Digest #661, 5 May 1997 (Dave Chamowitz)
Cider Apple Varieties ("Luedtke, Jim @ MIN")
Merridale (Steve Butts)
Scion wood (Richard Beach)
Cider concentrate (Michael L. Hall)
Reply (Robert Fletcher)
Apple + Maple "Cider" nomenclature (ejmoone@CCGATE.HAC.COM)
Cider recipes (Brian Black)
History of Tennessee Cider Production (YAMABREW@aol.com)
Spring cider (Terence Bradshaw)
Applejack (David & Christina Martin)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: response to low traffic
From: cider@raven.talisman.com (Cider Digest)
Date: 8 May 97 10:48:46 MDT (Thu)
There are two parts to the responses to my questions in the last digest
about the low traffic:
* Almost all of the responses I got directly to me said "Leave well
enough alone." That's cool...I've had lots of practice at doing
nothing, so I'm good at it, and that's what I'll do.
* A handful of people were encouraged by the mention of low traffic to
post some questions they'd been pondering. And those, of course,
will elicit a bunch of responses...so we'll probably see the digest
get busy for a little while.
Thanks for the input.
- ---
Cider Digest cider-request@talisman.com
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor Boulder County, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #661, 5 May 1997
From: Dave Chamowitz <dlc5n@virginia.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 01:50:54 -0400
Mr. Dunn,
My name is Dave Chamowitz and I am a burgeoning cider brewer.
Actually, I have yet to brew my first batch. Anyway, my experience with
Cider Digest has been a very educational one. I have saved every Digest,
and when I start brewing in the fall, I have every intention of referring
back to my archives to get at all of the advice that has been put forth. I
think the Digest is in great shape, even if the issues have been coming
somewhat thinner of late. Thank you, Mr. Dunn, and everyone who has
contributed their knowledge to this forum, for helping amateurs like me get
their feet wet.
- --Dave Chamowitz
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Apple Varieties
From: "Luedtke, Jim @ MIN" <jluedtke@isisys.com>
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 08:13:40 -0400
Does anyone know of northern USA sources of traditional English cider
trees? I know of a source in Sonoma, CA, but doubt they will be much
concerned over Minnesota cold-hardiness requirements.
------------------------------
Subject: Merridale
From: Steve Butts <Stephen.J.Butts@lawrence.edu>
Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 09:18:01 -0500 (CDT)
Colleagues:
I visited Merridale cidery just last month. They have made some compromises
for the commercial market (some filtration and added sugar, I believe), but
it's the best commercial cider I've had in North America: beats the heck out
of Woodchuck et al. They have a "traditional" Scrumpy made with a large pro-
portion of crabapples which is worth a try.
You would be well advised to call ahead: when I was there they were open but
the shop was manned by a young kid who didn't seem to know much and in fact
seemed somewhat threatened by my eager questions about Ph levels, apple
maceration and so on. I bet the owner would be more forthcoming, but I didn't
get to meet him.
They supposedly have distribution throughout British Columbia, but I could not
find the product in a large Vancouver provincial liquor store. Good luck!
- -- Steve Butts
buttss@lawrence.edu
------------------------------
Subject: Scion wood
From: Richard Beach <rbeach@advtech.uswest.com>
Date: Tue, 6 May 97 08:55:19 MDT
First, I don't mind low volume on the digest. Second, I've been
meaning to ask this during a lull for some time.
I don't have a degree in botany, so I have only guesses as to what
scion wood is or how grafting works. My guess is that scion wood is
some particular part of the tree from above the ground and that it is
attached to the root system of a strong variety by some method more
sofisticated that Elmer's glue and tape.
I understand that the goal is to get the fruit quality and/or
quantity of the scion's variety while getting the health and hardiness of
the root stock. Beyond that I don't know.
So, are there more reasons to be grafting? What is scion wood?
Can I make my own (if I had more interesting varieties of apples)? How
do you do the graft? Should I have used the word "cultivar" instead of
"variety" :)
Richard Beach.
Louisville, Co, USA
------------------------------
Subject: Cider concentrate
From: hall@galt.c3.lanl.gov (Michael L. Hall)
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 10:58:11 -0600
Dick was concerned over the very quiet digest, so I thought I would post
a question.
When a local homebrew shop went out of business, I became the owner of a
can of cider concentrate. It's similar in size to a can of malt extract,
and has a green on white label. I believe it's called something like
"Normandy Cider Concentrate" and the contents are supposedly from
France. (I don't have it with me so this is from memory.)
I was thinking about making a cyser with it (that is, an apple mead).
Does anyone have any experience with this product?
- -Mike
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Michael L. Hall, Ph.D. <hall@lanl.gov> |
| President, Los Alamos Atom Mashers <http://alpha.rollanet.org/~tamhc> |
| Member, AHA Board of Advisors <http://www.beertown.org/aha.html> |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Subject: Reply
From: Robert.Fletcher@pipe.nova.ca (Robert Fletcher)
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 10:57:03 -0600
I'm a newcomer to the cider digest and have been lurking in the shadows, but
I do appreciate the low volume. Granted, one submission a week is a bit
thin, but I like knowing that I'm connected to the wisdom of others without
being overrun by dozens of daily postings. I also subscribe to the homebrew
digest, and although full of useful info, its a bit much. The cider (and
mead) digest is a nice change from the HBD. Like most of you, I don't have
time to read hours of E-mail!
If it helps stir up some discussion, I'd like to know what blends of apples
(or juice, cider) people have had success with. I've understand that three
seems to be the magic number, the relative quantities of each depending on
the type, acid/sugar content, etc. Calgary isn't exactly in the apple belt,
so selection is limited to what the grocery stores are stocking. The 6 foot
ornamental tree in my backyard produced 400 medium size green fruit last
year, but they are TART! Probably not the best choice.
Thanks
Rob.
------------------------------
Subject: Apple + Maple "Cider" nomenclature
From: ejmoone@CCGATE.HAC.COM
Date: Tue, 06 May 97 13:32:54 PST8
Just in the interest of creating some bandwidth on this list, I'll ask
a question.
I recently brewed a concoction made from 1 gallon of store bought
apple juice (100% juice no preservatives), 1 12 oz can of frozen grape
juice concentrate, and 8 oz of maple syrup. I fermented it with
champagne yeast in the 1 gallon glass jug that came with the apple
juice. It turned out nicely (smooth), except for a brownish-red
color. I took it a meeting of our local brew club, who are mostly beer
brewers, and they loved it.
I guess my question would be, what would you call this concoction. I
shudder to call it a "cider" in the real sense, because I didn't press
my own apples and added other ingredients. I don't know if you could
call it a cyser, because I used maple syrup instead of honey.
Just curious if there was a technical term for this, or for any apple
based products combined with other ingredients. I know mead makers
have a long list for different varieties of mead.
Eddie
------------------------------
Subject: Cider recipes
From: Brian Black <b.black@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 05:45:15 -0700
I am interested in Cider Digest subscribers' success with cider recipes.
I am sure we all have access to the same books, but which recipes have
you tried that work well, and "glorify the apple"?
We are hosting a cider tasting and cider food tasting at Butch's Dry
Dock in Holland, Michigan soon and we are looking for a few good
suggestions. We, of course, love crepes, and will be creating some of
our own, but what else (especially finger-food and snacks) goes well
with cider?
You local folks, send me an e-mail and I will let you know the specific
date!
Thanks,
Brian Black
Black and Fagan Cider Company
Grand Rapids, Mich. USA
------------------------------
Subject: History of Tennessee Cider Production
From: YAMABREW@aol.com
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 22:38:34 -0400 (EDT)
I hope everyone is busy with their cider! I am curious if
any one knows the history of Tennessee/Western North Carolina
concerning production of Hard Apple Cider. I know that one area
of East Tennessee, "Shady Valley", had several large scale orchads
that had large scale production in the 40's and 50's. Does anyone
know about this area and its history?
Thanks,
Scott
YAMABREW@aol.com
Following my family tradition......legally!
------------------------------
Subject: Spring cider
From: tbradsha@zoo.uvm.edu (Terence Bradshaw)
Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 05:57:26 -0500 (CDT)
Hello again CD ers...
Just went back to my old home of Burlington, VT last weekend to pick up some
more of my stuff (I've moved to an orchard in Central Mass) and was greeted
by a pleasant surprise:
Back in January I cleaned a bunch of fruit out of the conventional cold
storage wjere I used to work and pressed them...Why let them just rot???
Sugars were very low (SG ~ 1.03) as were acids (pH ~4), but twenty gallons
were extracted and bottled up anyway. Added campden, champagne yeast, and a
bunch of honey, and never bothered to check the sg afterwards. Time went
on, two batches (ten gallons) went bad, some kind of mold took over. This
was not a surprise because the cooler was full of rotting fruit (it's a
research orchard, not commercial). 15 gallons of the juice was entirely
from Liberty apples which produced an excellent cider for me last fall. The
rest came from a mishmash of what hadn't yet rotted...I call it my "mongrel"
blend
Anyway, I went in and checked on it last weekend and low and behold the
batches were done, and Saturday I bottled up five gallons each of Liberty
and Mongrel...and they are great! Very high alcohol content due to poorly
measured sugar spiking ( and helpful considering the inoculum level of
creepy crawlies I started with), but very satisfactory flavor, although a
little light on tannins......Here's to a batch turned good!!!
One final note:
I am i the middle of planning my own cider orchard in central Vermont.
Varieties (for now) are Liberty, Wealthy, Red Astrakan, and Ribston Pippin,
all on semi-dwarfing M7 rootstocks. Anyone out there have experience
growing cider fruit on dwarfing stocks??? I would like my next trees even
smaller, i.e. m9 or M26
------------------------------
Subject: Applejack
From: dmartin@magna.com.au (David & Christina Martin)
Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 03:48:25 GMT
Hi All
I've just bottled my latest batch of cider and have a litre or two
that I couldn't find bottles for. I am planning to turn this excess
into Applejack by partly freezing and removing the ice untill it
doesn't freeze any more. I have tried once, but I seemed to be taking
out as much alcohol in the ice as i was leaving behind. Has anyone out
there done this? Could you give me some pointers on technique? Do I
need more cider to start with (the original is only about 4%).
Many Thanks In Advance
Dave
Airgead Studio
MS Access Application Development
dmartin@magna.com.au
DNRC: Director General of the Smacking Your Head Against=20
The Monitor In Frustration Institute
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #662
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