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Cider Digest #0689
Subject: Cider Digest #689, 4 October 1997
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #689 4 October 1997
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Russet juice yields (Steve Daughhetee)
Re: Cider Digest #688, 29 September 1997 (Ian Merwin)
Cider & Maturation (Ifor_Williams@EURO2.CCMAIL.compuserve.com)
WI report (Steve Butts)
Apple Press/Crusher (Greg Schaem)
Re: golden russets (Greg Appleyard)
cider yeast (Greg Appleyard)
Re: Cider Digest #688, 29 September 1997 (ylva van buuren)
Nurseries (David Johnson)
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Subject: Russet juice yields
From: Steve Daughhetee <sdd6@cornell.edu>
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 08:44:31 -0400
In Digest 688, Frank Klaassen wrote:
>Also, I was told by someone selling sweet cider at our local market that
>Golden Russets are poor juice producers. I suspect, as I have heard no one
>else mention it, that he was BSing me. What is the bushel to gallon ratio
>for these apples?
I have two pressings of Golden Russets under my belt and have consistently
gotten around 3.8 gallons/bushel. These apples were grown in the Finger
Lakes region and picked in early November. Specific gravities were greater
than 1.070.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #688, 29 September 1997
From: im13@cornell.edu (Ian Merwin)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:13:57 -0500
In response to Frank Klaassen's question about Golden Russet apples for
cider, their yield in juice is normal for apples-around 3 gallons per 42 lb
bushel of fruit, depending upon the efficiency of your mill and press. In
my experience with this variety, it is the yield per tree that is
problematic. They are slow to come into bearing, and not a very productive
tree overall. Newark (a.k.a. Hilltop) Nurseries in Michigan usually has
them for sale.
***********************************
Ian A. Merwin (im13@cornell.edu)
Associate Professor of Pomology
Dept. of Fruit and Vegetable Science
118 Plant Science Bldg., Cornell University
Ithaca, New York, 14853
_______________________
Phone: 607-255-1777
FAX: 607-255-0599
URL: http://www.fvs.cornell.edu/Faculty/php/IanMerwin/iam.html
------------------------------
Subject: Cider & Maturation
From: Ifor_Williams@EURO2.CCMAIL.compuserve.com
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:20:51 -0400
I've been recently drinking a cider I made three
years ago - and it is amazing! (he says modestly).
I just seems to get better and better.
The cider was 100% Dabinett, stored in a barrel for
a year before bottling.
What is the common wisdom on maturing cider? For
how long will the cider improve? How does the peak
age depend on the process, apple variety, vintage, etc?
Cheers,
Ifor.
Tregarth Cider Cooperative
------------------------------
Subject: WI report
From: Steve Butts <Stephen.J.Butts@lawrence.edu>
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 08:47:01 -0500 (CDT)
Folks --
A quick and completely unscientific report on the apple harvest in
southern Wisconsin:
Growers report a very good year. What they mean, of course, is that
they have good yields. My tasting of some of the early varieties in-
dicates an average year for taste and perfume, with decent levels of
tannin and acid, and slightly lower sugar content. (None of these
are measured, it's just my taste and memory).
On the good side, a number of the local growers are beginning to branch
out into varieties other than standard supermarket apples. Cortland,
Northern Spy and Russets are fairly readily available, and I've seen
various kinds of Pippens too. A good way to scout the area is to visit
some of the Saturday farmers' markets in the larger towns -- you'll see
and be able to talk to growers, and many will have brochures listing
other orchards in the area. Happy hunting!
- -- Steve Butts
stephen.j.butts@Lawrence.edu
------------------------------
Subject: Apple Press/Crusher
From: schaem@velo.engr.sgi.com (Greg Schaem)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 09:23:42 -0700
I just had my first harvest from the 5 apples trees in my yard. I now have what
looks loke a couple of thousand apples. Each tree is a major producer. I am
not sure what types they are. One looks like macintosh, it is a big apple with
dense and sweet flesh. Another is similar looking, but a bit smaller and less
dense and sweet. There are two or three different yellow apples, one crunchier
and refreshing, the others sweeter. Also two green apples, one like granny
smith and the other might be a pippin. Both are tart. Four of the trees have
grafts and all the apples are very good.
I wonder if these apples will make good cider. I have brewed beer for many
years, and I like cider. I need an apple press, and I believe I can use my beer
fermenting equipment for the rest. Where can I find, or how can I build an
apple press?
Greg Schaem, schaem@engr.sgi.com
------------------------------
Subject: Re: golden russets
From: Greg Appleyard <greg.appleyard@sask.usask.ca>
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 15:44:04 -0600
Frank Klaassen asked about sources of golden russets in Southern Ontario.
I would suggest you try some of the local farmer's markets. There are
planty of apples available at the KW and Guelph markets. I got my supply
from a grower who sold at the Guelph market. (Brantview Farm???) You will
find that the price of golden russets is high because they are a good
eating apple. You will have to ask for a bushel or two of "seconds" to get
them at a cheaper price. Another good place is the Meaford/Thornbury area,
but I can't guarentee you that anyone has golden russets up there but it is
worth the drive up there just for the scenery anyway. The GR a bit of a
specialty apple because it matures so late in the season and you may find
the russets are not ready to be picked yet (what with the cool summer and
all).
Frank also asked about the poor juice production of russets. I can not tell
you the expected yield but the russet not considered a good juice apples by
commercial standards. There are some apples which are very soft and yield a
lot of juice. These are the varieties the commercial producers are after.
However, I did not find the russet too bad. I think I got roughly a gallon
of juice per bushel from a backyard press. I don't think this was too much
different from any of the other apple varieties I tried (macs, jersey mas,
paula reds etc etc).
Good luck
Greg Appleyard
***My love for cider is geneticaly inherited***
------------------------------
Subject: cider yeast
From: Greg Appleyard <greg.appleyard@sask.usask.ca>
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 15:57:55 -0600
Dave Chamowitz asked several digests back for recommendations for cider
yeast. My suggestion is to use wild yeasts straight off press. Its a risk,
sometimes you get serious contamination, but other times you get great
cider. I guess this is really only a viable recommendation if you are
pressing your own juice or can get unpreserved juice from the farm-gate.
The best part is that if you get a good batch one year you can culture that
yeast and use it again the year after.
Lalvin 1118 works well but I would not suggest using YeastLabs British Ale
for cider....I had a bad experience with it once.
Good Luck
Greg Appleyard
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #688, 29 September 1997
From: yvbmedia@limestone.kosone.com (ylva van buuren)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:26:13 -0500 (CDT)
>From Grant Howes
Re:Golden Russett juice
>Cider Digest #688 29 September 1997
>
The problem with Golden Russetts is that growers can get as much as 20
dollars per bushel in the orchard. It's a new trendy eating apple. However
there are a few people that have these apples that could be purchased for
juice. I would suggest contacting Campbell's Orchard in Belleville Ontario
as they run a small cider mill and might have access to russetts for juice.
Don't know the number. But they are good people and no doubt, would provide
information on yield per bushel etc. Mention my name. As for using Russet
juice for hard cider, you must be careful to use only older variety russets.
New plantings are of a spur type variety and just don't cut it for hard cider.
Re: Malolactic fermentation
Malic acid is the green apple acid associated with under ripe fruit. Once
apples are picked and stored the amount of malic acid decreases... how, I
don't know. My experience with malolactic fermentation is that it can turn
a generally good tasting cider into a flat buttery swill. Remember that
good champagne has acid levels as high as 9 1/2 grams per litre. Since we
don't have the bittersweet apples as yet, I use acidity as a way of
providing my ciders with a better finish. Be very careful with malolactic
conversions as it might get away from you. Since you don't use sulphites I
suspect that malolactic bacteria will definitely be present in your cider.
You'll have to wait and see what the result is.
------------------------------
Subject: Nurseries
From: David Johnson <dmjalj@inwave.com>
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 1997 19:10:07 -0700
Greetings,
In reading another post on Rocky Meadow Nursery, I was reminded
that I need to renew my NAFEX membership. Ed Fackler is a regular
contributer to their journal "Pomona". I was wondering if, with all this
talk of forming a cider association, anyone had thought of making contact
with fruit growers as part of this. Near as I can tell, they have no
on-line presence. Would they be interested in selecting some of the fruit
related posts from here for "Pomona" (with the authors permission)? They
often seem to be interested in more material. We might find that some of
their membership might be interested in participating in this forum. The
fact that I can get quick feedback and can strike up private talks
here makes this less formidable way of communicating than a printed
journal. If it isn't going to be in print, I feel that it is OK to ask
questions that might end up sounding foolish.
My interest in cider partly comes from the fact that I planted
12+ apple trees about 5 years ago and they are coming into regular
bearing. What was I to do with all that fruit? Cider and mead fit in
nicely.
I also would like to make a few comments on behalf of my other
favorite nurseries. I am very fond of Bear Creek Nursery. They happen to
be in the same USDA zone as I am (on the border between 4&5) and have a
very informative catalog with a wide ranging inventory. Thay have a
number of hard to find varieties and decent prices. If you can't find it
there, then for a slightly higher price Southmeadow Fruit Gardens
probably carry it. They do have Dabinett, Foxwhelp, Kingston Black,
Medaille d'Or, and Tremlett's Bitter! They also have their illustrated
catalog that although it has black and white illustrations is very much
worth the read and the $9 fee (because I won't lend out MY copy). For
fruit growers in cold regions, I suggest you check out Saint Lawrence
Nursery. They specialize in cold hardy trees. Last I checked, the apples
were all full sized on Anatovka rootstock. They feel that dwarving root
stock is less hardy. They also have a good selection.
Addresses:
Southmeadow Fruit Gardens
PO Box 211 - 10603 Cleveland Ave.
Baroda MI 49101
Saint Lawrence Nursery
325 State Hwy 345
Potsdam, NY 13676
Bear Creek Nursery
PO Box 411
Northport, WA 99157
The address on Bear creek may be somewhat dated. My recent catalog has
been on loan. No Affiliation just delighted to be able to pass on
information about these fine businesses.
Dave
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #689
*************************
