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Cider Digest #0708
Subject: Cider Digest #708, 3 December 1997
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #708 3 December 1997
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: wood parts on a cider press; wood variety and finishe (Marc Montefusco)
Re: wood parts on a cider press ("Luedtke, Jim @ MIN")
Re: Cider Digest #707, 30 November 1997 (GREATFERM@aol.com)
Cider Web Site (John Ford)
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Subject: Re: wood parts on a cider press; wood variety and finishe
From: Marc Montefusco <mmontefusco@mmsw.com>
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 10:54:40 -0500
Regarding Dick Dunn's question about finishing wooden parts on a cider press:
There are probably three reasons to finish wooden parts that are exposed to
juice, none of them (to my mind) compelling. First, for sanitation, since wood,
whether close or open grained, is an excellent harbor for microorganisms.
Second, to prevent the transfer of unwanted flavor to the cider. Third, to
prevent to gratuitous loss of juice through absorption and leakage.
The only reason not to finish for sanitation is to allow a benevolent microflora
to build up on the pressing equipment. If you are going to sulfite and pitch a
prepared yeast, this shouldn't make any difference. In terms of off-flavors, if
the equipment is kept reasonably clean (free from molds, dust, etc.) the
transfer of flavors is probably going to be minimal after the first few
pressing, and will in most cases pass off during fernentation and conditioning.
In fact, maple, birch, and oak are all potentially interesting additions to the
flavor/aroma mix. (I would be concerned that some elements of your press might
be made from plywood, and that the additives and adhesives used in its
manufacture would introduce problems. See the next sentence.) The flip side of
this consideration is the concern that uncured wood finishes may impart far more
objectionable and persistent odors. Finally, in my own ancient hand press which
I use for test batches, I replaced the wooden drip pan with a stainless steel
model, eliminating the area of greatest contact and greatest potential juice
loss. Certainly a careful job of finishing or lining) this area would pay off.
Not sure if this is helpful -- good luck in any case.
Marc Montefusco
New World Cider
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Subject: Re: wood parts on a cider press
From: "Luedtke, Jim @ MIN" <jluedtke@isisys.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 17:22:00 -0500
Some 12 years ago or so, I made a cider press very similar to the large
Happy Valley Ranch model. Wood varieties were selected for low
impartation of flavors/aromas to food. I ended up with ash, ironwood and
poplar for the pieces in extended contact with the pomace.
The grinder body is laminated ash with a clear epoxy finish which
remains intact to this day. The rest of the wood pieces were treated
with Watco Danish Oil Finish, which is reputed to be safe for food
contact after 30 days or so of curing. The Watco just now probably
could use a refresher coat.
I preferred a penetrating finish such as oil to a finish that sits on
the surface (such as varnish), reasoning that it's not ever going to
flake off into the cider.
Using these methods, I have yet to notice any wood character coming
through in the juice.
Dick, I strongly suspect the birch plywood as the culprit for the wood
flavor you speak of. In my experience, birch has a stronger odor than
maple, and plywood veneers naturally have minute cracks which
theoretically could allow the cider to penetrate and pick up more
flavors than from solid wood. By all means finish the tray.
Sorry, I have no experience with oak parts, though someone out there
must. If I reach way back, I can recall seeing a photo of an all-oak
press in Fine Woodworking (maybe 1978 or so?), perhaps that builder will
come to your rescue!
Jim Luedtke
jluedtke@isisys.com
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #707, 30 November 1997
From: GREATFERM@aol.com
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 1997 18:11:00 -0500 (EST)
Coating wood parts of a cider press
I am really surprised that you get any flavor pickup whatsoever from apple
juice and raw unfinished wood. I don't think anyone in the wine industry
coats wood, usually red oak, in presses. They do exterior coats, and if
you're interested in these, there is a whole line of food-grade O'Sullivan
coatings available from Pickering Winery supply, 888 Post Street, San
Francisco CA 94109, phone 415-474-1588. Some of these, such as Gondola Enamel
and some epoxies are used to coat metal parts of presses and other things
which contact juice.
Personally, I prefer raw wood, ever since some recent experiments with
cutting boards demonstrated that the wood ones were cleaner than the plastic.
Probably because bacteria can hide in cracks or scratches. but dry wood seems
to dessicate and kill them.
Jay Conner
Greatferm
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Subject: Cider Web Site
From: jvf@vianet.net.au (John Ford )
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:00:16 +0800
Those of us scour the net looking for cider references might like to add
http://www.sidra.com/sidra.htm to their bookmarks.
This site is from the Natural Cider movement in Asturias, Northern Spain,
where there is obviously a strong tradition of making (and drinking) cider,
sidra to them. They use 'old' cider apples (pictures on-screen) and have a
pouring ritual which entails holding a large bowl shaped, thin walled glass
at arms length while pouring from a bottle held high above the head. This
gives the sidra a little fizz - a useful tip for those who are wary of
storing ferment bombs.
The only drawback is that this site is in Spanish and has a tantalizing
amount of technical and social info-anyone care to translate?
John
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End of Cider Digest #708
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