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Cider Digest #0700
Subject: Cider Digest #700, 31 October 1997
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #700 31 October 1997
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Pastuerizing bottles (Brewer Warren)
cider sweetener (Brewer Warren)
Tannin contribution during fermentation ("John R. Bowen")
Re: Unwanted fermentation (Marc Shapiro)
Re: Cider Digest #694, 19 October 1997 ("Dione Wolfe, Dragonweyr, NM dkey@...)
dangers of exploding champagne bottles (Dick Dunn)
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Subject: Pastuerizing bottles
From: Brewer Warren <wrp2@axe.humboldt.edu>
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:15:15 -0800 (PST)
With the recent discussion of the new Proux & Nichols book, I
thought it would be a good time to get help with the last one. I was
reading the book in the library and was somewhat curious about their
approach to sweet carbonated cider. I don't remember if they did this
with hard cider or just wanted to make bubbles in sweet juice, but maybe
it doesn't matter. The directions described putting the carbonated
bottles in a pot of water and raising the temp up to 150 F or so.
Carbon Dioxide is less soluble in warmer liquids, so wouldn't this risk
exploding bottles? Anyone try it? Does the new book go into more detail
on this?
Warren Place
wrp2@axe.humboldt.edu
------------------------------
Subject: cider sweetener
From: Brewer Warren <wrp2@axe.humboldt.edu>
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 19:19:12 -0800 (PST)
Has anyone tried using sorbitol to sweeten cider? I looked it up
in the chemical references I have and couldn't find any info on it's
metabolic activity. I suspect it's at least partly fermentable, but I
need to find something other than lactose to use?
Warren Place
wrp2@axe.humboldt.edu
------------------------------
Subject: Tannin contribution during fermentation
From: "John R. Bowen" <jbowen@primary.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 12:45:06 +0000
I have 5 or so batches of cider fermenting along, each made from
apples from different sources. I was going to blend that from
crabapples with that from dessert apples at completion, as I have no
idea how they will taste. But now I am wondering, is there any
benefit to having the extra tannins and acids from the crabapples
present with the dessert apples DURING the fermentation, as opposed to
just blended to taste later?
Thanks.
John
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Unwanted fermentation
From: Marc Shapiro <mn.shapiro1@mindspring.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:45:52 -0500
> Subject: Unwanted fermentation
> From: Tim Taylor <tt@individual.com>
> Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 14:42:56 -0500
>
I suggest that you add the desired amount of sugar and let it ferment.
It certainly wouldn't hurt to add a packet of cultured yeast, but it
probably isn't necessary. This juice obviously has found a yeast that
is quite happy with the current mix of juice and nutrients and will
probably do quite well on its own.
I once had a related experience. For a Twelfth Night celebration, I had
made some wassail (which I make as a heavily spiced apple metheglin). I
made two batches, one alcoholic and the other not. The alcoholic batch
was finished that night. The next morning, I decided to warm up the
remaining non-alcoholic wassail to serve with breakfast. It was heated
to a near boil (steaming well, but no bubbles). What remained got put
back into a carboy and taken home. I figured, due to the re-heating,
that there was no active yeast in there. In a few days, when I had some
time, I would add some more apple juice and honey, throw in a yeast
starter and let it go. The next day, however, when I got home from
work, I found the stopper on the floor across the room and the juice in
the carboy was fermenting better than I have ever managed by adding an
active starter. It wasn't the BEST metheglin that I have ever made, but
considering the lack of effort required, it was certainly worthwhile.
Marc Shapiro http://www.geocities.com/Paris/1265/index.html
"If you drink melomel every day, you will live to be 150 years old,
unless your wife shoots you."
- --Dr. Ferenc Androczi, Winemaker of the Little Hungary Winery
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #694, 19 October 1997
From: "Dione Wolfe, Dragonweyr, NM dkey@medusa.unm.edu" <DKEY@MEDUSA.UNM.EDU>
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 14:06:05 -0700 (MST)
Concerning sparkling cider: a physician whith whom I work tells me he obtained
( or emptied) a pony keg of beer while in med school then filled it with cheap
white wine. he reconnected it to the Biermiester rig he had and***sparkling
wine on tap! The Biermiester is a refrigerated cabinet that holds a keg and
CO2 cannister and the necessary regulator and plumbing to have beer on tap.
Apparently this force carbonates anything coming out of the spout.
This may not be acceptable to some cider lovers who may desire only natural
carbonation, but it does work and you get sparkling cider.
Never Thirst,
Dione
------------------------------
Subject: dangers of exploding champagne bottles
From: rcd@raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: 31 Oct 97 18:06:00 MST (Fri)
In Cider Digest #698, Matt Beumer (regtulk@primenet.com) wrote:
> ...If you want
> sparkling cider, when palatable, bottle into champagne magna (or magnums
> if you prefer)and the pressure will let the yeast go dormant...
...and a bit further on...
> ...Champagne bottles are meant to hold
> liquids under high pressure, so you need not to worry about exploding
> bottles...
Matt, this is wrong, and dangerously so.
The pressure from contained carbonation won't cause the yeast to go
dormant--that is, not at any pressure you want to be dealing with inside
a glass bottle.
And while champagne bottles are made to take a fair amount of pressure,
fermentation can still produce enough pressure to explode them.
> ... Make sure that they are champagne bottles and not wine
> bottles. We don't want cider bombs going off leaving shards of glass to
> be quickly shot into various body parts.
Realize that, although a champagne bottle is quite strong, it *IS* possible
to overcarbonate (by fermentation) enough to break it, and if you do, the
force of the explosion when it finally happens will be greater, hence more
dangerous, than what would happen with a weaker bottle.
Certainly, don't bottle carbonated cider in a wine bottle. (Unless you've
got pretty tight corks, it'll push the corks instead of exploding the
bottles, but either way gives a result you don't want.)
Beer bottles can handle reasonable carbonation, and champagne bottles can
handle about as much as you could want, but you've still got to watch the
sugar control or you will explode even a champagne bottle.
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd, domain talisman.com Boulder County, Colorado USA
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End of Cider Digest #700
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