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Cider Digest #0685
Subject: Cider Digest #685, 16 September 1997
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #685 16 September 1997
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
A taste for Woodpecker ("John R. Bowen")
Re: Cider & Beer Interest ("Gene R. Rankin")
Oak Chips/sawdust ("John A. Ray")
Re: Cider Digest #684, 8 September 1997 (Hoss)
Second batch (bruce dykes)
Cider tasting vocabulary (Andrew Lea)
Help! Can't get sweet! ("Jonny Miner")
Yeast in the C'Ville Area (Dave Chamowitz)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: A taste for Woodpecker
From: "John R. Bowen" <jbowen@primary.net>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 1956 13:33:54 +0000
Andrew Lea, I'm sure you were directing your remark at Woodpecker, but
please don't chide participants like Kevin Rooney who want to make a
cider like Woodpecker. Many of us have only been exposed to a few
commercial ciders and none of your undoubtably great ciders. What we
are saying is really: "How can I make a cider at least as good as
Woodpecker, because it is better than anything I have had before. If
I can make one that good, then this is worth the effort. Its a good
standard for a novice like me, and if I can learn to make and
appreciate something much better, then I will".
I remember learning to drink wine (after leaving a teetotaling
household). I started with the sweeter rotgut because my palate (and
my wallet) couldn't appreciate anything better. But it was a start
and I quickly grew.
No, I don't know the recipe for Woodpecker, but what can I make that
will please me a much as that, or more? ( A rhetorical question;
please don't send recipies).
John Bowen
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider & Beer Interest
From: "Gene R. Rankin" <grankin@itis.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 11:03:42 -0600
On 8 Sep 97 at 11:03, Mark Tumarkin wrote:
>[snip]
> questions. I have only made two batches of cider so far - without the
> success that I have had with beer,at least in terms of my own taste. I
> would say that I am not atypical as far as brewers and their interest.
>[snip]
I am also a homebrewer, who was not happy with his cider results - until some
folks on this list told me to leave the stuff down in the basement for at
least a year. I did. The result was worth waiting for. What was rough and
alcoholic became champagne-like, dry, clear straw-colored, excellent
tiny bubbles. I was told that champagne yeast (which is what I used) just
takes longer to work its magic, and they were right.
- ----------
Gene R. Rankin / Madison, WI / USA
To scroll down, press "Ctrl/Alt/Delete"
------------------------------
Subject: Oak Chips/sawdust
From: "John A. Ray" <jar18@cornell.edu>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 17:03:56 -0400
Greetings,
Has anyone experience using oak chips or oak sawdust in place of aging in
oak barrels (for those of us still working with 5 gal. carboy size lots)?
i.e. types of material (Oak-mor ?), duration of exposure, amounts, etc.
John A. Ray
122 Plant Science Building
Department of Fruit and Vegetable Science
Cornell University
Ithaca, NY 14853
Phone (607) 255-1774
FAX (607) 255-0599
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #684, 8 September 1997
From: Hoss <dan016@telerama.lm.com>
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 17:54:13
>Why on earth should anybody WANT to make a cider like Woodpecker when they
>could make the real thing from 100% apple instead? If you really knew the
>recipe for it you'd probably be appalled! On the other hand, it sells!!
Actually, I'd kind of like to hear the ingredients in woodpecker if you put
it that way....care to share?
^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
[] Dan aka Hoss []
[] dan016@telerama.lm.com []
[] http://www.lm.com/~dan016 []
^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v
== Stop the execution of Mumia Abu-Jamal ==
=== If you agree copy these 3 sentences in your own sig ===
==== more info: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/spg-l/sigaction.htm ====
------------------------------
Subject: Second batch
From: bruce dykes <bdykes@intac.com>
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 05:10:42 -0400
Okay, I'm going to be starting my second batch of cider in about a week.
My first batch produced a remarkably low grade carbonated vinegar.
My plan for the second batch is to go to my local apple orchard/farmer's
market, and buy four gallons of their freshly pressed and unprocessed
juice in standard US 1 gallon glass jugs.
I'm thinking your standard carboy airlock should fit the jug mouth,
meaning all I have to for my basic cider is pour off some cider to make
some headroom, add my yeast of choice, and let them do their thing.
My next questions concern going on from there. First, should I use a
secondary fermentation? If I want to make it sparkling cider, is it as
simple as adding priming sugar, how much, and what works best? If I
wanted to flavor the cider with spices (cinnamon and allspice being the
obvious choices), when and how would be the best way to impart the
flavor, steeping in cider before the primary, or reserve some to add to
the secondary? How well do sweetening adjuncts such as honey, maple
syrup, or malt extracts play in the cider making process? Am I just
overly complicating everything before I've even brewed a successful
batch?
------------------------------
Subject: Cider tasting vocabulary
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 04:16:43 -0400
In Digest #684, Henry Ciderman asked about the development of a cider
vocabulary. Anyone seriously interested in vocabulary development in
fermented beverages should get to know about the 'Beer Flavour Wheel' which
was developed here in England at the Brewing Research Foundation in the
1960's, and later converted into the 'Wine Flavour Wheel' by Ann Noble at
the Enology Department at UC Davis (see
http://wineserver.ucdavis.edu/VEN7.HTML). See the following sites for more
info about the Beer wheel
http://realbeer.com/brewery/library/FlavW.html
http://byo.com/Back/wheel.html
(although despite what they tell you about its history it really WAS
invented here in the UK!!)
The basic concept is that dozens of carefully evaluated terms are ranked
around three concentric 'hubs' and aligned as if in the spokes of a wheel
The inner hub contains primary terms e.g. fruity, vegetative, nutty, woody,
floral, spicy etc. The middle hub contains sub-terms for each of these
e.g. sub-terms for fruity might include citrus, berry, dried fruit etc..
The outer wheel contains the individual sub-terms e.g. dried fruit breaks
down into strawberry jam, raisin, prune, fig. Any wine can then be scored
by relating its flavour intensity for each spoke of the wheel (there are
about one hundred spokes on the wine wheel) You can download the wine
wheel from Ann Noble's web site (see above) tho it's an Adobe File so
you'll need an Adobe Reader to view it. =
There IS also a corresponding cider wheel, which was developed a few years
ago by the National Association of Cider Makers Analytical Committee, of
which I'm a member. When I get a moment, I'll try to re-type all the terms
in tabular form (a straightened-out wheel!) and put them on a web page.
I'll give you the address through the Digest when I've done it. For the
moment, though, anyone who's seriously interested in formal tasting
vocabulary should check out the wine and beer wheels!
Andrew Lea, nr Oxford, UK
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
------------------------------
Subject: Help! Can't get sweet!
From: "Jonny Miner" <woofhead@classic.msn.com>
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 97 23:40:46 UT
I've tried two batches of cider and both have come out with almost no
sweetness. The first had an OG=1.070. It came out tasing STRONGLY alcoholic. I
reduced the OG on the second to 1.056 and got pretty much the same result;
almost no sweetness and an overpowering alcohol flavor. I'm using Wyeast Irish
ale yeast and storebought juice. Is there a recommended unfermentable form of
sugar I can add for sweetness? If so how much? Is my gravity still just too
high?
Thanks for the help,
- --Jonny
------------------------------
Subject: Yeast in the C'Ville Area
From: Dave Chamowitz <dlc5n@virginia.edu>
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 00:03:23 -0400
Dear Cider Digest,
Does anyone know of a source of good ale yeasts in the
Charlottesville, VA area? I hope I can get apples at this stage of the
game, but I have been thwarted by an inability to find the yeast I need.
Thanks for your help...
- --Dave Chamowitz
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #685
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