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Cider Digest #0716
Subject: Cider Digest #716, 6 January 1998
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #716 6 January 1998
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Apple flavor in Ciders (Chasman)
A US cider standard (Roy Bailey)
Natural Yeasts (Tim Taylor)
serving temp (kathy)
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Subject: Apple flavor in Ciders
From: Chasman <cwhudak@mail.adnc.com>
Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 19:10:23 -0800
Andrew writes:
>Incidentally I've never been clear why people should expect cider to taste
>like apples - do we expect wine to taste like grapes or beer to taste like
>barley?? Of course not!
Well, this is not exactly true. I *do* expect some beers to taste "malty"
(though not necessarilly like 'barley' since beer is made with malt
predominantly, not raw barley) and I *do* expect to be able to discern a
certain "grapeness" in my wines. FWIW I *do not* expect my wines to taste
like alcoholic grapejuice though.
I think that it is perfectly normal to expect a certain amount of apple
character to remain in cider and that is what I strive for in mine. I do
not like ciders that are dry and winelike. If I want to drink wine, I will;
I do not expect that in my ciders.
>The flavour of a fermentation is conditioned by
>the raw material but it doesn't taste OF that raw material - and I can tell
>you as a flavour chemist that none of the original flavour volatiles of
>apples remain in the cider, they're all newly made during fermentation.
Hmmm, I am currently sipping a wonderful cyser that I made several months
back (I had to rack it and take a gravity reading--you didn't think I'd
just throw the sample away did you? ;) ) and it has a wonderful aroma of
tart apples--the same aroma as the juice that it was made from. Certainly
it is not as pronounced as the original juice, but it is there
nevertheless. Though I'm not a flavor chemist, I'd be willing to bet that a
LC-MS run of my cyser would show quite a few of the same volatile
constituents as were in the original juice (sorry guys, tech talk, I used
to be an environmental chemist) though the profile would be *quite*
different. I can't believe that "none" of the original volatiles remain.
>And many grateful thanks to Dick Dunn for hosting and organising this
>Digest!
I wholeheartedly agree. I enjoy both this digest and the Mead-Lover's
Digest--Dick does a great job with them both and we all owe him a debt of
gratitude for providing us this forum.
Hope everyone had a happy new year.
Charles Hudak
Hopelessly hooked brewer of all kinds of potables
Charles Hudak in San Diego, California (Living large in Ocean Beach!!)
cwhudak@adnc.com
ICQ# 4253902
"If God had intended for us to drink beer, he would have given us stomachs."
- --David Daye
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Subject: A US cider standard
From: Roy Bailey <lvcider@westberks.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:08:33 +0000
In Digest#715 CAROL GUY (caguy@iafrica.com) wrote
>Jim asked about a cider available in the US. I am in South Africa, and
>have had a similar experience, I recently found a cider called "Scrumpy
>Jack", which, if it is available in the US, seems to be a pretty good
>standard to work to.
I'm sorry to have to inform Carol that, among cider aficionados in the
UK, Scrumpy Jack, produced by Bulmers of Hereford, does not rate very
highly. In the 1996 Guide to Real Cider, produced by the Campaign for
Real Ale, it is described as 'a keg cider widely served through a fake
handpump which, ironically, is of a good blend and would be perfectly
acceptable if served in its natural, still form'.
'Keg', in this context, means pasteurised and filtered and dispensed in
bulk in pubs by carbon dioxide pressure - quite normal in many parts of
the world but anathema to lovers of good ale and cider in this country.
Bulmers are one of the two big cider producers in Britain, producing
between them about 97% of the cider sold. They now own Inch's,
mentioned by Andrew Lea in the following article.
I can, however, endorse what Andrew said about Dunkerton's. They also
operate from Herefordshire, but are a very much smaller company and
produce very high quality ciders. They make a single varietal bottled
cider from the famous Kingston Black apples, which is a superb drink,
but I don't imagine it is exported to South Africa or the USA.
Keep searching, Carol!
- --
Roy Bailey - Proprietor, The Lambourn Valley Cider Company
(Real cider from the Royal County)
The Malt House, Great Shefford, HUNGERFORD, Berks RG17 7ED, UK
Tel & Fax: 01488 648441 URL: http://www.westberks.demon.co.uk/lvcider/
------------------------------
Subject: Natural Yeasts
From: Tim Taylor <tt@individual.com>
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 09:30:14 -0500
Recently I bottled the 5g of cider that had fermented "naturally",
ie I had waited too long to add yeast, and the "wild" yeasts took it upon
themselves to begin the wonderful fermentation process. I sampled it, and
was very surprised to find that it was sweeter than other batches. I had
saved the residues from when I racked it off, and I was wondering if this
would work for a second batch? Is there any way to "save" yeast from one
batch to another, perhaps by freezing?
Thanks much in advance,
TT
"Alcohol is the anesthesia by which we endure the operation of life"
George Bernard Shaw
------------------------------
Subject: serving temp
From: kathy <kbooth@scnc.waverly.k12.mi.us>
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 11:20:46 -0500
I recently tried a glass of Doc Smithy's Cider at a pub. It was served
ice cold in a frosted glass, and was almost drinkable compared to the
too sweet tastings I've tried at home.
What temperature do most of you like your cider served? What is the
traditional temp. for serving in England?
Wassail....jim booth, lansing, mi
Private mail is ok at
kbooth@waverly.k12.mi.us
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End of Cider Digest #716
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