Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Cider Digest #0701
Subject: Cider Digest #701, 3 November 1997
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #701 3 November 1997
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Unwanted (?) yeasts (Andrew Lea)
Tannins and acids in blend (Andrew Lea)
Sorbitol (Andrew Lea)
Re: Cider Digest #700, 31 October 1997 ("Kat Lonewolf")
Cider apples available--right now (John Ross)
Re: Cider Digest #700, 31 October 1997 (Michael S Ferdinando)
Send ONLY articles for the digest to cider@talisman.com.
Use cider-request@talisman.com for subscribe/unsubscribe/admin requests.
When subscribing, please include your name and a good address in the
message body unless you're sure your mailer generates them.
Archives of the Digest are available for anonymous FTP at ftp.stanford.edu
in pub/clubs/homebrew/cider.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Unwanted (?) yeasts
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 03:10:51 -0500
Just on this topic - all apples contain large numbers of wild yeasts INSIDE
the fruit itself, which gives upwards of 10,000 cells per ml in the juice
as soon as it's pressed. You can't avoid this! The species are
principally Hanseniospora valbyensis (formerly called Kloeckera apiculata),
Metschnikowia pulcherrima, and a few Saccharomyces uvarum. Hence the juice
will start to ferment by itself within a couple of days at room
temperature, iniated by the first two species. Results may be variable but
if you keep the whole system under an airlock to avoid development of
bacteria (with or without sulphite addition too) then a 'succession' will
develop finishing up with the Saccharomyces dominating as the alcohol
rises. You get interesting flavours this way and hence interesting ciders
- - though they may need some maturation to resorb excess ethyl acetate! I
am increasingly of the opinion that carefully directed 'semi-natural'
fermentations have a lot to offer, and in fact I'm doing all my cidermaking
this way this season!
Andrew Lea, nr Oxford, UK
------------------------------
Subject: Tannins and acids in blend
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 03:10:53 -0500
John Bowen asked
>>But now I am wondering, is there any benefit to having the
>>extra tannins and acids from the crabapples present with the
>>dessert apples DURING the fermentation, as opposed to just
>>blended to taste later?
No huge benefits except:
1. having all the tannins present initially will sidestep problems with
post-blending tannin hazes if you need a sparklingly clear product
2. having all the acid present initially will keep the pH down below the
magic figure of 3.8 which helps to avoid bacterial infection (this would be
a problem if any of the apples in your blend are especially low in acid
i.e. pH above 3.8, which is the case for many bittersweet cider apples)
Andrew Lea, nr Oxford, UK
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
------------------------------
Subject: Sorbitol
From: Andrew Lea <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 03:10:54 -0500
Warren Place asked
>>Has anyone tried using sorbitol to sweeten cider? I looked it
>>up in the chemical references I have and couldn't find any info
>>on it's metabolic activity.
Sorbitol is naturally present in the apples and therefore in the cider in
the first place -at concentrations up to 1% sometimes. In fact, it's the
major reason that a dry cider can still taste slightly sweet (and is a part
of the so-called 'sugar free dry extract'). The reason it remains in a
cider is that it's completely unfermentable by yeast. Curiously, I never
heard of anyone using it to sweeten cider. This is probably because of its
cost and also its laxative effects. Current UK cider regulations would not
permit it, I think, and in any case demand all foods with added sorbitol to
be declared on the label. But for domestic use it shouldn't be a problem.
Our Ministry of Agriculture advises no more than 25 g daily intake of
sorbitol.
Andrew Lea, nr Oxford, UK
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/andrew_lea
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #700, 31 October 1997
From: "Kat Lonewolf" <lonewolf@frazmtn.com>
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 1997 10:37:21 -0800
> Has anyone tried using sorbitol to sweeten cider? I looked it up
>in the chemical references I have and couldn't find any info on it's
>metabolic activity. I suspect it's at least partly fermentable, but I
>need to find something other than lactose to use?
>
>Warren Place
Coming from a medical person's point of view, I am not sure you would
want to use sorbitol. It has some very interesting effects on the
intestinal tract. Namely, it'll clear everything out in a quick
hurry. Not a comfortable feeling. In the ER we use it mixed with
charcoal for overdose patients to get the charcoal run through the
system fast, in order to absorb any drugs left in the intestines and
stomach. Also, I have used it in a liquid iron supplement I was
taking. It was supposed to keep one from getting constipated due to
those natural tendencies of the iron. Needless to say, I was on the
other end(no pun intended....really) of the spectrum from
constipation. So you might want to consider this when thinking of
using sorbitol. I have no idea if it would have the same effect if it
was fermented in the cider making process. Probably not, but I can't
be sure.
Lonewolf
------------------------------
Subject: Cider apples available--right now
From: John Ross <johnross@halcyon.com>
Date: Sun, 2 Nov 1997 17:12:13 -0800 (PST)
Does anybody reading this want about 100 pounds (maybe a little more) of
bittersharp and bittersweet cider apples? That's enough for about eight
gallons of juice.
The fruit is located near Seattle. Would be best if you could come and get
them, because shipping would be very expensive.
These apples were grown at the Washington State University experimental
cider orchard. The apples are clean and sorted in boxes. They include the
following varietes:
Vilberie Sweet Coppin
Michelin Geeveston Fanny
Anere de Berthcourt Muscat de Lense
Reine Des Pommes Taylor's
If you can use these apples, please let me know.
John Ross
johnross@halcyon.com
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #700, 31 October 1997
From: Michael S Ferdinando <msf2@cornell.edu>
Date: Mon, 3 Nov 1997 13:15:51 -0500 (EST)
>Subject: dangers of exploding champagne bottles
>From: rcd@raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
>Date: 31 Oct 97 18:06:00 MST (Fri)
>
>
>Beer bottles can handle reasonable carbonation, and champagne bottles can
>handle about as much as you could want, but you've still got to watch the
>sugar control or you will explode even a champagne bottle.
Excellent advice. My uncle's best friend, a cider-maker extraordinaire,
has a terribly crippled left hand. He has no feeling in his tumb and first
two fingers. About twenty years ago, he was attempting to make a
carbonated cider by "methode champaignoise." He didn't realize that when
the bottles are "turned", professional vintners still wear safety goggles
and what is essentially a chainmail gauntlet to protect their hand. One of
the champagne bottles exploded in his hand when he turned it, and the glass
cut several tendons in his hand, as well as leaving a few ugly scars on his
face. He was extremely lucky that none of the shrapnel hit his eyes. He
said that glass was embedded into the wall twenty feet away.
So, be very very careful with champagne bottles.
Michael S Ferdinando Customer Service Analyst
ATS HelpDesk, 119 CCC, Cornell University, Ithaca NY 14853
msf2@cornell.edu | 607-255-8990 (Phone) | 607-255-9270 (fax)
PGP public key at: <http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/msf2/pgpkey.html>
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #701
*************************
