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Cider Digest #0618
Subject: Cider Digest #618, 12 October 1996
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #618 12 October 1996
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
help ID this cider apple? (Dick Dunn)
Re: Cider Digest #617, 9 October 1996 (Michael S Ferdinando)
Ascorbic Acid ("ERNIES (604) 363-6371")
Pasteurization (Ron Kline)
Warcollier translation citation (Marcel Fortin)
Cider Press in Denver, CO? ("Hal Hammond")
Cider - residual sweetness ("Kevin Sprague")
shelf life (lprescot@sover.net)
Mother Earth News, Oct/Nov 1996 (Dick Dunn)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: help ID this cider apple?
From: rcd@raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: 9 Oct 96 11:14:19 MDT (Wed)
I managed to get some true cider apples from an orchardist who has been
experimenting with them but didn't have tiem to pick them this year.
One variety has me puzzled--I'm pretty sure he's got it mis-marked, but I
can't tell what it really might be. He had it marked "Dakinett" and I
would have assumed that was just an obvious slip from "Dabinett" except
that the characteristics don't match the information I have on Dabinett,
nor does the fruit look like Dabinetts I've seen. Can anybody identify
this one?
OK, the mystery apple:
* obviously a cider apple, a bittersweet.
* said by this orchardist "to bloom a full two weeks after everything
else...I don't know how it gets pollinated!" In Colorado, with our
potential for late frosts, this is something he would obviously note
with interest and care. This really doesn't fit Dabinett.
* color: deep red. (This also doesn't fit Dabinett.) Slight streaking.
Occasional slight russeting at cavity.
* fruit size/shape: small-to-medium (1.5-2.5"/4-6cm dia., around 2-3 oz/
60-90 g typ), round, slight lobes at apex, fairly shallow basin,
narrow cavity of average depth.
* quite aromatic--a handful of apples will perfume a room
There's a good chance he may have gotten the tree from Southmeadow.
Any guesses or hints?
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Boulder County, Colorado USA
...Too bad about Boulder.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #617, 9 October 1996
From: msf2@cornell.edu (Michael S Ferdinando)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 13:28:34 -0400
>Subject: Yeasts for residual sweetness
>From: Andrew LEA <101750.3071@compuserve.com>
>Date: Sat, 5 Oct 1996 02:51:07 -0400
>
>Several contributors to the Digest seem to be suggesting that if they use
>certain types of beer yeast they will get a naturally sweet cider because
>the yeast will stop fermenting before all the sugar is used up, as it
>sometimes does in beer. I don't believe this is true.
- -[explanation deleted]-
>Making a naturally sweet cider is really quite difficult! If there were a
>yeast which did the job then believe me the commercial boys would be using
>it already!!
I suppose it all depends on your definitions of "sweet" and "natural".
I regularly make a 5-gallon batch of semi-dry cider. All I do is boost the
sugar content of the must with honey or by concentrating it by boiling off
some water. Then I use an ale yeast, such as Wyeast Irish Ale or Red Star
dried ale yeast. It ferments to about 8-10% alcohol, leaving a hint of
residual sweetness.
If you want something as sweet as a late-harvest "ice wine", or a wine
cooler, then, no, this won't work. My cider is usually comparable in
dryness (and alcohol content) to a semi-dry white wine, like a
Gewurztraminer (sp?).
I'm going to try a batch this week-end using some recultured Wyeast German
Ale yeast form an Altbier that I made last spring. I'll let y'all know how
it turns out.
Michael S Ferdinando
Production Control Assistant--Cornellcard
Cornell University Office of the Bursar, 260 Day Hall, Ithaca NY 14853
607-255-8135 // msf2@cornell.edu // fax: 607-255-6442
The doctor can bury his mistakes, but the architect can only advise his
clients to plant vines. --Frank Lloyd Wright
------------------------------
Subject: Ascorbic Acid
From: "ERNIES (604) 363-6371" <ernies@ios.bc.ca>
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 10:35:40 -0700 (PDT)
I'd like to make a cranberry cider this year. I've already
started the cider and would like to 'cheat' by adding frozen
cranberry concentrate to the cider (along with enough sugar to
keep the SG up). The ingredients on the concentrate I'm
looking at are: Water, Sugar, Cranberry concentrate, cranberry
juice and Ascorbic Acid.
What will Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C ?) do to the cider - stop
the ferment? add off-flavours? make it bitter?
Anybody have info on this?\
On a sidelight - It's a pleasure to see the knowledgeable
answers coming from Andrew Lea - I really appreciate his
insights.
Ernie Sargent
ernies@ios.bc.ca
------------------------------
Subject: Pasteurization
From: Ron Kline <ronbrew@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 1996 11:17:31 +0000
I was wondering if anyone has had experimented with heating bottles of
cider in water to kill all activity of yeast and bacteria. I am curious
if this would cause a haze to develop if the cider has finished clear.
Also is there a taste change that delvelops when doing this. I have a
feeling that since nobody is talking about this that there must be some
reason that it does not work well. I had a vision of adding fresh cider
before bottling letting it ferment until I've reached the carbonation I
want and then heating the bottles in water to stop all activity.
Ron Kline
------------------------------
Subject: Warcollier translation citation
From: Marcel Fortin <fortin@unixg.ubc.ca>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 1996 15:52:23 -0700 (PDT)
Here is the translation info on Warcollier's book. You can give this record
to any Inter-Library loan office and they'll find it for you:
|ACCESSION: 2940291
| AUTHOR: Warcollier, Georges.
| TITLE: The principles and practice of cider-making,
| PLACE: London,
|PUBLISHER: L. Hill,
| YEAR: 1949
| PUB TYPE: Book
| FORMAT: 367 p. illus. 22 cm.
| NOTES: Includes bibliographies.
| SUBJECT: Cider.
| OTHER: Charley, Vernon L. S., tr.
|_____________________________________________________________________________
It is available at the following libraries through WorldCat
OH
OSU OHIO STATE UNIV, THE Y
CA
CRU UNIV OF CALIFORNIA, RIVERSIDE Y
CSA CALIFORNIA STATE UNIV, SACRAMENTO Y
CUY UNIV OF CALIFORNIA, BERKELEY Y
MA
AUM UNIV OF MASSACHUSETTS AT AMHERST Y
MI
EEM MICHIGAN STATE UNIV Y
MN
MNP UNIV OF MINNESOTA, ST PAUL Y
MO
LHL LINDA HALL LIBR Y
NY
BKL BROOKLYN PUB LIBR N
BNY NEW YORK PUB LIBR Y
COO CORNELL UNIV Y
VXW VASSAR COL Y
OR
ORX MULTNOMAH CNTY LIBR Y
PA
PHA STATE LIBR OF PENNSYLVANIA Y
SD
SDB SOUTH DAKOTA STATE UNIV Y
TX
PVA PRAIRIE VIEW A&M UNIV Y
WA
NTE WASHINGTON STATE UNIV Y
WI
GZD MILWAUKEE CNTY FEDERATED LIBR SYST Y
GZM UNIV OF WISCONSIN, MADISON Y
ON
CAI CISTI (CANADA INST SCI TECH INFO) Y
EU
BUQ QUEEN'S UNIV, SCI LIBR N
NLW NATIONAL LIBR OF WALES N
UKM BRITISH LIBR N
>From the cider librarian,
Marcel Fortin
fortin@unixg.ubc.ca
------------------------------
Subject: Cider Press in Denver, CO?
From: "Hal Hammond" <hal@enterprise.advance.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 10:03:10 -0600
I was recently offered a supply of apples and I'd like to
beg/borrow/rent/swap/share a cider press if anyone has
access to one. Would also be interested in plans to construct
a small press if anyone has any ideas (for next year?)
Thanks in advance,
Hal
- --
Harold (Hal) A. Hammond
User Interface Coordinator
Integrated Products Group
Landmark Graphics Corp.
hal@advance.com Voice: 303-779-8080 Fax: 303-796-0807
------------------------------
Subject: Cider - residual sweetness
From: "Kevin Sprague" <homebrew@ix2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 1996 14:33:42 +0000
Hello all!
It is cider time. In the throws of building a home press (per Oct.
issue of Mother Earth News) and trying to finish it in time to press
apples. I have a thought for the collective regarding ending up with
a sweet cider.
Per the Homebrew Digest (I brew beer also), I has been stated
numerous times that upon racking from the primary to the secondary,
yeast settles out of solution very rapidly due to changes in
volumetric pressure. If one were to rack a few times successively
over the course of several days, could one not cause the majority of
the yeast to settle out of solution thus ending with a sweet
cider????
Anyone had any experience with this method of making sweet cider?
Maybe a physics pro or someone could comment on the pressure change
phenomenon.
Kevin
------------------------------
Subject: shelf life
From: lprescot@sover.net
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 1996 06:58:02 -0400 (EDT)
I don't recall reading about this in past issues, but how long
can a batch of cider, with an alcohol content of around 6% be
expected to stay good. Judging from my beers, I would guess
about 11 months to a year at the outside. Anyone know better?
David Prescott, Shaftsbury, Vermont
------------------------------
Subject: Mother Earth News, Oct/Nov 1996
From: rcd@raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: 12 Oct 96 09:49:32 MDT (Sat)
The October/November 1996 issue (#158) of "Mother Earth News" has a couple
articles about apples that might be of background interest if you're think-
ing of growing your own apples, plus an article on constructing a cider
press. (There's no specific discussion of (fermented) cider.)
The cider-press construction article boils down to using the commercial
Happy Valley Ranch hardware--grinder, top and bottom brackets and press
screw--with home-made wood parts. I think it's an OK article, although
I found a few strange ideas. For example, they suggest coating the wood
parts that will contact juice with vegetable oil (because they don't want a
wood finish that might contain toxic resins, etc.). My experience says
that vegetable oil is going to turn rancid eventually and that will leave
you with an unpleasant refinishing job. But anyway...you might have a look
at the article; just keep your eyes open.
(I don't know that Mother Earth News has much distribution beyond the US
and Canada.)
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Boulder County, Colorado USA
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #618
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