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Cider Digest #0621
Subject: Cider Digest #621, 27 October 1996
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #621 27 October 1996
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: viable wild yeast in frozen juice? ("Dave Moore")
Re: SS hardware (Steven Rezsutek)
Re: Cider Digest #620, 24 October 1996 (Brian Dixon)
Off flavours (Derek Bisset)
Source for good cider juice ("Dennis A. Walker")
Freedom of the press (Dick Dunn)
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Subject: Re: viable wild yeast in frozen juice?
From: "Dave Moore" <moore@mnsinc.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 09:31:27 +0000
Michael Mendenhall <mmendenh@br.state.ut.us> asked:
>Will there be viable "wild" yeast in the frozen juice...
Michael, I once wondered whether I could save yeast for later use by putting
a slurry in a ziplock bag and placing it in the deep freeze. All attempts to
revive them in a sterile starter failed. I know that a mixture of glycerine
can be used to freeze yeast successfully, but just plain frozen juice seems
to kill yeast very effectively. I suggest that you plan on pitching a
domestic yeast if you are using frozen juice.
On the subject of "Sweet Cider":
I've been taking fresh cider and letting it sit unrefrigerated for a couple
of days until the wild yeast, (or pitched yeast if previously frozen), are
clearly active and bubbling. I then keg it in a 5L minikeg. When the keg
becomes rigid under pressure, (about 4-8 hours), I refrigerate for a couple
of days. Now tap the keg and you have sweet sparkling cider. At this point
the alcohol level is a fraction of a percent so even the kids can drink it.
Since the cider is still in active ferment it won't keep, but this has not
been a problem. In fact I've had the opposite problem. The rest of the
family drinks it so fast I can't get my fair share. I've even had alternating
kegs going at once trying to keep up.
PGP key available at "http://www.mnsinc.com/moore"
Dave Moore
------------------------------
Subject: Re: SS hardware
From: Steven Rezsutek <steve@synapse.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 10:19:55 -0400
Another source for this kind of thing might be MSC (<Mumble> Supply
Company? :). I've loaned out my [extremely huge] catalog, so I can't
verify they would have the items in question, but they're very
friendly folks and would more than likely love to send you one. The
number I have handy is:
800-645-7270
and you can check them out on the web, too, at
http://www.industry.net/c/mn/00cn2
Steve
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #620, 24 October 1996
From: Brian Dixon <briand@hpcvsgen.cv.hp.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 96 7:37:57 PDT
> Subject: viable wild yeast in frozen juice?
> From: Michael Mendenhall <mmendenh@br.state.ut.us>
> Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 15:59:34 -0600
>
> I've got access to frozen apple juice (recently-pressed, no preservatives
> added) and would like to try a natural fermentation, i.e. I won't pitch any
> yeast. Will there be viable "wild" yeast in the frozen juice, or does
> freezing the juice wipe them out? Any advice?
>
> Michael Mendenhall
> SLC UT
> mmendenh@br.state.ut.us
>
Yeast, especially wild yeast, will sporulate in 'harsh' conditions. That
means when they get dried out or cooled off, but not when overheated. It's
a survival mechanism that works fairly well. On the other hand, the
frozen yeast will slowly die off over time. I would guess that you stand
a pretty good chance of having wild yeast in your frozen cider and that
it will come 'alive' and reproduce once you return the cider to more
hospitable conditions. I'd start the cider fermenting at 75 F until it
becomes active, then reduce the temperature 5 degrees a day or so until
you get down to the 58-60 F temperature range, then hold it there. One
benefit of freezing the stuff and playing games with leaving it frozen is
that a few of the naturally occurring 'other' organisms such as lacto
bacillus will die off quicker than the yeast since their survival
mechanism is not as robust as the yeast's. You may actually get a cleaner
cider as a result. But to my knowledge, nobody has done any work to study
this kind of pretreatment. Finally, the air in your house contains wild
yeast too, and that'll tend to inocculate your cider also, although I'd
try to keep it clean, sanitary, and closed off with a sanitized blowoff
tube or airlock until you know you don't have any viable yeast before
I'd expose it to more air. Personally, I don't rely on natural yeast
because I fear the 'slime infections', acetic infections, and the other
naturally occurring critters. I like about 1 campden table per gallon,
followed by 2 days allow the stuff to dissipate, then I pitch either an
ale yeast or a white wine yeast (if the ale yeast fails).
Brian
------------------------------
Subject: Off flavours
From: Derek Bisset <derek_bisset@bc.sympatico.ca>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 15:52:49 -0700
In making cider over the years I have usually used fresh juice of apples
from a small home orchard and I have decided that one source of odd
tastes or aromas comes from the use of damaged fruit. There is always a
temptation to throw fruit into the crusher with only casual inspection
and apples with some amount of rot do get by.
In years when I have made several batches separately, the most suspect
apples eg: those waiting longest to get crushed, have produced the most
off flavors.
Lack of acidity in the apples also seems to contribute to off flavours.
I have seen a recommendation from Long Ashton that SO2 does not work well
if there is any rot in the apples so that harmful organisms in the juice
may not be affected by the SO2.
At the same time I have used a wide variety of pitched yeasts to ferment,
last year a dry mead yeast and a pasteur champagne from Logsdons' in
Oregon. The variety and condition of the apples had a much greater effect
on flavour than the yeast used.
Apples should be selected for cider with almost as much care as they are
for other uses. Sound, firm apples with good acidity will give the
cleanest cider in the long run. It is pleasant to have some crabs or
proper cider apples for the body they add, too.
------------------------------
Subject: Source for good cider juice
From: "Dennis A. Walker" <ansel@hom.net>
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 20:15:10 -0700
I have made some ciders recently and have been disappointed with
the very bland final result, which I am thinking is due to the limited
selection of apple juice available in my area (middle Georgia).
If anyone knows of a commercial source for cider juice that
you've had good results with that would ship to me, I'd appreciate it
if you could pass it on.
------------------------------
Subject: Freedom of the press
From: rcd@raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: 26 Oct 96 17:25:50 MDT (Sat)
I finally gave in and bought a small grinder/press of my own this year in
time for the apple harvest. Our area had a bumper crop this year...there
were literally apples everywhere...so it was a good time to be able to
press them.
Now I wish I'd bought the press a couple years ago! It's really great to
be able to press apples to get the blend you want, rather than taking pot
luck with whatever juice you can buy or scrounge. I even happened on a
source of "real" (English variety) cider apples for free just because the
owner was too busy to do anything with them. These wouldn't have done me
any good without the press. I've got more cider going this year than any
year in the past, and I've got a lot more chance to learn how to blend
what I can get, because I've got a variety of juices and I know where they
came from. ("Freedom of the press", I'd call it;-)
Once I had the press, friends with apple trees or sources of apples just
seemed to find me. There's a fairly obvious trade-off here: If somebody
can bring you apples, you can press them all and split the juice (the ratio
of the split depending on whether you helped pick). In the process, you
can arrange to keep more of the juice that's suitable for cider-making and
give away more of the blander juices--which are still good as fresh juice.
Most of this year's cider cost me nothing but labor...and it was fun.
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Boulder County, Colorado USA
...Too bad about Boulder.
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #621
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