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Cider Digest #0657
Subject: Cider Digest #657, 11 April 1997
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #657 11 April 1997
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Perry pears (Andrew LEA)
Re: Cider Digest #652, 11 March 1997 (William J. Rhyne)
White 'mould' in cider (Tom Duchesneau)
Perry Pears ("Keith Robertson")
Pear varieties (Rod McDonald)
elder flower extract (Dave Kain)
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Subject: Perry pears
From: Andrew LEA <andrew_lea@compuserve.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 17:22:10 -0400
In Digest # 656, Dick Dunn enquired
>>.Is anyone out here sufficiently conversant with perry to
>>provide a gentle introduction to what pear varieties are used
>>for perry?.
Well I don't have any personal experience of making perry though it was
made in the Long Ashton Cider House during my years at the Research Station
and very fine and delicate it was too at its best. Perry pears are not
classified into bittersweets, bittersharps etc. like cider apples. Most
are somewhat low in acid and some of them are inedibly high in a special
sort of astringent tannin. One classification of the commoner varieties
goes as follows:
Need milling straight from the tree: Barland, Thorn, Moorcroft, Taynton
Squash, Blakeney Red.
Need maturing: Oldfield, Red Horse
Need maceration after pressing (to reduce tannin): Rock, Butt (I have
personally seen and worked with freshly made Butt perry with inches of
tannin sedimented on the bottom of a 15 litre glass jar!)
The Lord only knows where to get these cultivars in the USA (Corvallis,
perhaps?). In the UK there are only a couple of nurserymen who stock a
fairly limited list. I believe there are problems in growing perry pears
on dwarfing (quince) rootstock and mostly they are planted as standards or
half-standards on seedling pear roots. Traditionally they often grew in
Gloucestershire on poor sloping limy or marly ground which pear stock can
cope with but quince stock can't. The graft union on quince is often weak
and I believe for that route they have to be double grafted (but I can't
remember what pear interstock is used). On pear stock they're robust, often
reach 60 ft high and live for 200 years - 'plant pears for your heirs' the
old saying goes!
The standard book on the subject is 'Perry Pears' by L C Luckwill and A
Pollard, published by the University of Bristol in 1963 and altho it ought
to be long out of print the nurserymen Scotts of Merriott , Somerset, TA16
5PL claimed to have copies in stock as recently as 1994!
Andrew Lea
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Cider Digest #652, 11 March 1997
From: rhyne@pop.winterlan.com (William J. Rhyne)
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 20:28:22 -0700
RE: Perry
Hello, Dick!
In the June 1996 issue of the Wine Business Monthly, they reported on the
the study conducted by the Univ. of California Cooperative Extension, some
Mendocino pear farmers, and local wineries. As a matter of fact, the cider
that I sent to you last summer was blended with some of the pear cider from
this study. The article was written by Christian McIntosh of the WBM.
To summarize, the perry was made at Roederer Estate in Philo in the
champenoise method. They used Bartlett, Winter Nelis, and Bosc pears. There
was some manipulation because the pH of the Winter Nelis and Bartlett were
high ( 4.54 and 4.21). The Bartlett came out on top in with the panel of
tasters but they commented that it needed more acidification.
I think that the purpose of the study was to find a new market for the
locally grown pears, to utilize idle capacity at local champagne facilties,
and to test the feasibility of the concept of local wineries making perry
during slack production times.
For the complete article, contact the Wine Business Monthly in Sonoma, CA.
They also are on the internet but I don't know the URL.
I hope that this helps.
Bill
===========================
William J. Rhyne
===========================
------------------------------
Subject: White 'mould' in cider
From: Tom Duchesneau <ssi@wizvax.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 97 18:04 CDT
Unless I'm mistaken, what you are describing is called "flower". I know
because I dumped two batches 2 years ago because of it. It's pretty much a
terminal infection.
It's described in a book I've got (but it's at home and cant remember the
title or authors -- it is, however a large paperback with a red cover).
...Tom
------------------------------
Subject: Perry Pears
From: "Keith Robertson" <apples@cbl.com.au>
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 06:59:57 +0000
I read with interest your article about Perry Pears. I recently read
in Pomona which I recieve in the mail from NAFLEX that there are Perry
Pears at the National Clonal Germplasm Repository. One of the
far-seeing Pomologists imported twelve of the finest English
varieties and one variety each from France, Switzerland, and Romania
during the 1980's. These fifteen varieties are available to
researchers. Requests for scionwood can be sent to National Clonal
Germplasm Repository , Dr. Kim Hummer, 33447 Peoria Road, Corvallis,
Oregon 97333. I have seen these listed in their file pear.exe I typed
in Perry Pears as the accession in the database. The internet address
is www.ars-grin.gov/npgs/pcgrin/ you will find the file under Index.
I have made some Cider's using about one third pears of various
varieties and they have turned out very well with a nice pear flavour
and a slighty pink colour.
Keith Robertson
------------------------------
Subject: Pear varieties
From: Rod.McDonald@dist.gov.au (Rod McDonald)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 16:32:49 +1100
>Subject: pear varieties for perry
Ben Turner's "Compleat Home Winemaker and Brewer" (ISBN 0 09 130251 X) page
144 states that the pear varieties used for perry are: Barland, Blakeney
Red, Moorcroft, Taynton Squash, and Thorn.
Presumably these would still exist in England.
The sweeter dessert pears are apparently only suitable for pear wine.
On a side note, Turner gives the following apple varieties as suitable for
Cider: Sweet Coppin (sweet), Bulmer's Norman (bitter sweet), Yarlington
Mill (bitter sweet), Crimson King (sharp), and Kingston Black (bitter
sharp). He recommends a blend of these for the best result, but you can use
ordinary apples trying to use a 4:2:1 mixture of sweet:sour:bitter apples -
for bitter you can use hard pears or crab apples, sour he describes as
cooking varieties such as Bramley, Derby or Granny Smith (yes folks, ripe
when green). He also suggests that such a mix will be better if you can use
sider apples as well.
I recently discovered an orchard here in Canberra that juices Yarlington
Mill and a mix of other dessert apples on a 50/50 basis for A$30 per 25
litres (bargain!). It is the first tme I have found real live cider apples
in Australia.
>Is anyone out here sufficiently conversant with perry to provide a
>gentle introduction to what pear varieties are used for perry?...
Alas, no.
and, perhaps, any additional information on where to find such pears?
Like I said, probably in England, and then probably in an out of the way area
that the twentieth century has bypassed!
Best of luck
Rod
rod.mcdonald@dist.gov.au
------------------------------
Subject: elder flower extract
From: dpk1@nysaes.cornell.edu (Dave Kain)
Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 09:38:48 -0400 (EDT)
Has anyone ever heard of/worked with elder flower extract? I'm told that
it's used in a number of applications as a food and drink additive,
including addition to perry (don't know the reason) in Europe. A man who
works in the Food Science Dept. here at the (New York State Agricultural
Experiment) Station obtained some from a visitor and tried it in some
perry. He had a control and three levels of added elder flower extract.
He said that immediately after adding the extract he noticed a marked
difference among treatments which he described as a "smoothing" effect, as
though it had been aged for 6 months. The perry had been treated with
sorbate and sulfited so, presumably, there should have been no fermentation
of the elder flower extract. However, a week afterward he tasted them again
and found no discernable difference between any of the treatments. A
number of questions come to mind. 1) How and for what purpose do Europeans
use this stuff, i.e. how is the perry treated before addition of the
extract (pasteurized?) and what is the effect on something like perry? and
2) Where can we get some?
Before finishing this message I visited Andrew Lea's and Gillian Grafton's
home pages and found that I have a lot to learn about making perry.
However, I'd still like to know about the use of elder flower extract if
anyone can help. Thanks.
Dave Kain
Dept. of Entomology
New York State Ag. Experiment Station
Geneva, NY
dpk1@nysaes.cornell.edu
------------------------------
End of Cider Digest #657
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