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Cider Digest #0623
Subject: Cider Digest #623, 5 November 1996
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #623 5 November 1996
Forum for Discussion of Cider Issues
Dick Dunn, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Cider Digest #622, 1 November 1996 (Michael S Ferdinando)
Re: Freezng dry yeasts (Sean Cox)
Cider yeasts (rrutherf@students.wisc.edu)
Re: increasing fermentable sugars (Wegeng,Donald)
bad apples, Off flavours and worse (Dick Dunn)
Is my cider ruined? ("Ray Robert")
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Subject: Re: Cider Digest #622, 1 November 1996
From: Michael S Ferdinando <msf2@cornell.edu>
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:15:35 -0500
At 8:18 AM +0000 11/1/96, cider-request@talisman.com wrote:
>
>Subject: increasing fermentable sugars
>From: Dave Chamowitz <dlc5n@virginia.edu>
>Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:05:47 -0500
>
>I'm just breaking into the craft of cidermaking, and I found a recipe for a
>pretty basic cider. I'd like to increase the fermentable sugars in my next
>batch, but I was looking for some suggestions of ways to accomplish this.
>One idea I was presented with was to boil the fresh cider down before
>pitching your yeast (say from 7 gallons down to around 5). It was also
>suggested that I might add raisins or some other fruit, which would both
>increase the sugars and add a unique taste. Does anyone have any
>suggestions as to which of these is better, or any other ideas for me? I'd
>appreciate it.
>
>- --Dave
Aha! Someone read my article on The Brewery!
Both work, but give you different results. I prefer the "boil-down" method
myself, as that concentrates the apple flavor. YMMV.
Other ideas are simply to add some amount of some kind of sugar. Honey
works quite well. Some folks swear by plain old table sugar. I've never
tried that.
Good luck!
Michael S Ferdinando
Production Control Assistant--Cornellcard
Cornell University Office of the Bursar, 260 Day Hall, Ithaca NY 14853
607-255-8135 // msf2@cornell.edu // fax: 607-255-6442
I don't make jokes. I simply watch the government and report the facts.
-- Will Rogers
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Freezng dry yeasts
From: scox@factset.com (Sean Cox)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 12:57:59 -0500 (EST)
>From: "Kevin Sprague" <homebrew@ix23.ix.netcom.com>
>Can anyone comment on freezing dry yeast. It seems that I had to
>purchase a large quantity (500g can) of Lalvin (sp.) S6U yeast to perform 5
>gallon test batches of cider. Once I opened the can it is open.
>What can I do with the remaining yeast to keep it useable?? I have
>placed it in freezer bags and put it in a tupperware container in the
>refrigerator. Any comment.
I haven't tried this for fermentation, but my wife and I have used
dry bread yeast that had been kept refrigerated *well* beyond its printed
expiration date.
We decided to pick up a 2lb bag o' yeast from BJ's Wholesale since the
cost was about the same as buying 3-4 of the dry yeast packet sets at the
supermarket. The package said to use within 1 week of opening, but I recently
made a whole bunch of pizza with it some 4 months after its expiration.
I'm not saying that you'll get the same results as with fresh yeast,
but you should be able to get good results (all my bread yeast starters tasted
and smelled fine even so long after they "expired). Yeast is a much hardier
creature than most people seem to give it credit for....
--Sean
_______________________________________________________
Sean Cox, Systems Engineer FactSet Research Systems
scox@factset.com Greenwich, CT
------------------------------
Subject: Cider yeasts
From: rrutherf@students.wisc.edu
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 18:25:06 -0600
Hello all-
I've been reading of late about the lamentable lack of yeasts specifically
adapted for pitching in cider for good reproducible product. Sure, lager
yeasts and wine yeasts work fine, but a genuine cider yeast might be able
to give us something truly superior.
I'm a geneticist by trade and do some work with yeast-- I certainly know
how to purify, cross, store yeast strains. I'd be interested in anyone's
ideas about how to isolate the best "wild yeasts", and what characteristics
would be optimum to breed for. Undoubtedly, this will be a matter of
personal taste, and I've got my own ideas, but would be interested in what
others might think.
Best,
Rob Rutherford
rrutherf@students.wisc.edu
------------------------------
Subject: Re: increasing fermentable sugars
From: Donald_Wegeng@xn.xerox.com (Wegeng,Donald)
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:11:27 PST
>I'd like to increase the fermentable sugars in my next
>batch, but I was looking for some suggestions of ways to accomplish this.
There are several ways to do accomplish this, some of which I have even tried.
1. Add cane or corn sugar. This is the easiest solution (and probably
the least expensive, too). Unlike beer, you don't have to worry very
much about off flavors.
2. Add honey. This is similar to #1. In fact, if add a pound of
honey to a gallon of cider you get a beverage called cyser, which is
recognized as a type of mead.
3. Add raisins. This would have the added benefit of helping to raise
the tannin level of the cider. I have no idea how to compute the
quantity of raisins to use.
4. Add a different fruit juice. I have thought quite a bit about
this, but I have not tried it. In particular I have considered adding
white grape juice when making sparkling cider. Unfortunately I don't
have any information about the sugar content of various fruit juices.
I'm also not sure which fruits would taste best with apples.
5. Add frozen apple concentrate, such as available in the frozen food
section of your local grocery store (next to the orange juice
concentrate). This is another popular method. It would probably be
best if you knew what varieties of apples were used to make the
concentrate (some brands list this on the label, but most do not).
6. Add a different frozen juice concentrate. See #3 above.
7. Adding boiled down cider. I have a recipe for cider jelly that
calls for boiled cider, so I know it's a reasonable idea. The only
problem is that boiling removes most of the apple aroma, so I suggest
adding some unboiled cider from an aromatic varieties (such as macs).
I would be interested in additional ideas, or more details about any of
the above.
/Don
donald_wegeng@xn.xerox.com
------------------------------
Subject: bad apples, Off flavours and worse
From: rcd@raven.talisman.com (Dick Dunn)
Date: 3 Nov 96 21:20:50 MST (Sun)
Derek Bisset <derek_bisset@bc.sympatico.ca> wrote about "Off flavours" and
importance of apples in good condition. I assume that many of you in the
US heard about some folks getting sick from E. coli ultimately traced back
to a bad batch of apple juice put out by Odwalla. (The juice has all been
recalled by now.) The reports I saw indicated that the problem had been
caused by using windfalls. (Anybody have more relevant info?)
Derek wrote:
>...I have decided that one source of odd
> tastes or aromas comes from the use of damaged fruit. There is always a
> temptation to throw fruit into the crusher with only casual inspection
> and apples with some amount of rot do get by...
...
> In years when I have made several batches separately, the most suspect
> apples eg: those waiting longest to get crushed, have produced the most
> off flavors.
Realize that it's a normal practice to give apples a few days between
picking and pressing. During this time the sugar in the apples will come
up a bit and the apples will soften so that they press better. If you're
doing this, it *really* matters that the apples be in good condition to
start with, because this "mellowing" period is an opportunity for any
spoilage to go a lot further.
>...The variety and condition of the apples had a much greater effect
> on flavour than the yeast used...
Every commercial cider-maker I've talked to says, in effect, that the
apples are nearly the only thing that matters in cider making...they say
"apples, apples, apples!" the way a realtor says "location, location,
location!" Of course, they're talking primarily about variety, but they
know better than to use rotten apples.
> Apples should be selected for cider with almost as much care as they are
> for other uses...
Some things don't matter. First of all, cider apples don't need to be
perfectly shaped; they don't have to look nice. Russetting is OK; some
particularly good cider apples even have a tendency to russet. Hail
damage is usually OK; in fact, hail-damaged fruit is a good source for
fermentation because the appearance makes it hard to sell as table fruit.
Hail damage early in the season will mark the skin of fruit but won't
damage the ultimate quality much, if any.
On the other hand, windfalls can be bad news even if they look pretty good
when you first pick them up. (This is a risk with people picking fruit and
bringing it to you.) I'd say a good first rule is "Don't use windfalls",
period. If you need a reason, remember the case or two every year of folks
getting sick from eating windfalls or drinking juice made from them.
I will break this rule sometimes. If I see the apple fall, I'll probably
take it (but bearing in mind that apples sometimes fall prematurely because
there's something wrong with them). If apples from a particular tree are
precious, and the sward is fairly clean dry grass, I may hunt around for
windfalls and examine each one carefully before taking it...but it's gotta
be an unusual tree with not many apples to merit that sort of attention.
Some folks have apple trees bordering a pasture, or they even pasture
animals in amongst the trees, a sort of "dual use" arrangement. I'd
*never* take a windfall from a pasture area like this.
Every time I hear about folks getting sick from juice made from bad apples,
I worry a little that we're going to end up with a regulatory over-reaction
that will require all juice be pasteurized or preserved. (It *could*
happen--unpasteurized milk can't be sold in the US, and as a result there
are some foods you'll never have unless you've got access to someone with
dairy cattle.) That would be very hard on cider-making in the US, which is
having enough trouble already.
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com Boulder County, Colorado USA
------------------------------
Subject: Is my cider ruined?
From: "Ray Robert" <Ray_Robert@bah.com>
Date: 5 Nov 1996 09:39:05 -0500
Hello All!
Made two batches of cider over the past month. One was 5 gallons fresh pressed
apple cider, no preservatives. Used a tablespoon tartaric acid and fermented
with a sweet mead yeast based on the recommendations from a local homebrew
store. Did the same (except for tartaric acid) for a 1 gallon batch of perry.
Everything seemed to be normal, apple cider tasted great when racking to
secondary. I bottled this past weekend, and frankly they all tasted horrible.
Very strong, vinegary taste, with no residual sweetness. Is there anything I
can do to salvage this batch or is my cider ruined (IMCR)?
Regards
Robert Ray
ray_robert@bah.com
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End of Cider Digest #623
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